Interbane wrote:

Campings prophecy and the 1948 prophecy have been shown false, the text does not prophesize these things. There is no way to reach the date of 1948 from within the bible. It's impossible without outside information which is cherry picked to get the desired numbers(and still doesn't work, since the passages in question are actually talking about Israel around 700 bc, where the prediction points to an even only a few hundred years in the future, before baby jesus). If you can't see this, then a few neurons need rewiring.

no one cares about Camping. I have maintained that from the very beginning of the post discussing him. There is no connection between his prediction and my discussion of the Bible's prophecy that Israel would be refounded as a nation. I must conclude that your persistence in conflating me with Camping is an attempt to associate me with Camping in the mind of the reader. That is poor scholarship and in the law what we call a sharp practice, not exactly a lie but nearly indistinguishable from one. What Camping and those like him do is prohibited by the Bible and I denounce it. As for the prophecy of Israel being restored in 1948, please secify what is incorrect in the prophecy or the methodology in arriving at the date.

Little death angels sit and quake
waiting for the earth to shake
from their mouths the sewage flows
what it means no one knows
because no sense they make.

As for the prophecy of Israel being restored in 1948, please secify what is incorrect in the prophecy or the methodology in arriving at the date.

Post hoc use of two different calendars for no reason.
Misinterpretation of what is being referred to within the passages.
Failed criteria for the establishment of Israel as a nation.
The start date was arrived at by working backwards from the supposed prophecy date(oops).

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone talking to a person who believes in actual magical prophecies. What do you have to do in order to believe this? It's impossibly foolish, I don't think I could force myself to believe it if my life depended on it and I was on 31 different drugs. Not that I'd be opposed to believing in it, I did as a child and it was wonderful. But when you start from the correct position and use observation to build a worldview you arrive at the truth. When you start with the belief, then seek support for it(which you will always find, even if it's false), there is no way to determine if what you believe is true. Any belief can be rationalized, as you're well aware. That means, any given hypothetical worldview(of all shapes and colors, even the most extreme) can be as seemingly rational as you believe your worldview to be. That is still possible while simultaneously being false. The only way to eliminate this ubiquitous trap is to start first with observation, and build a worldview from the components, rather than look for components that have only a "possibility" of supporting your position.

This has already been settled Stahrwe, it's non-sequitur. Draw a logical connection between the components of the prophecy to see what I mean. I tried and could not, so perhaps you may be able to show me up. In the end, the problem would still remain. One in a trillion coincidences MUST happen nearly every day. That is a precedent that is too high for you to overcome. It's not an on-the-spot last resort precedent, it's the way our universe works whether you understand it or not. If coincidence cannot be ruled out, you must remain agnostic.

But the sloppiness is unforgivable, so you don't even make it to the precedent. Arriving at the start date from the end date, using multiple calendars, and blind misinterpretation of the text.

Interbane wrote:

As for the prophecy of Israel being restored in 1948, please secify what is incorrect in the prophecy or the methodology in arriving at the date.

Post hoc use of two different calendars for no reason.
Misinterpretation of what is being referred to within the passages.
Failed criteria for the establishment of Israel as a nation.
The start date was arrived at by working backwards from the supposed prophecy date(oops).

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone talking to a person who believes in actual magical prophecies. What do you have to do in order to believe this? It's impossibly foolish, I don't think I could force myself to believe it if my life depended on it and I was on 31 different drugs. Not that I'd be opposed to believing in it, I did as a child and it was wonderful. But when you start from the correct position and use observation to build a worldview you arrive at the truth. When you start with the belief, then seek support for it(which you will always find, even if it's false), there is no way to determine if what you believe is true. Any belief can be rationalized, as you're well aware. That means, any given hypothetical worldview(of all shapes and colors, even the most extreme) can be as seemingly rational as you believe your worldview to be. That is still possible while simultaneously being false. The only way to eliminate this ubiquitous trap is to start first with observation, and build a worldview from the components, rather than look for components that have only a "possibility" of supporting your position.

This has already been settled Stahrwe, it's non-sequitur. Draw a logical connection between the components of the prophecy to see what I mean. I tried and could not, so perhaps you may be able to show me up. In the end, the problem would still remain. One in a trillion coincidences MUST happen nearly every day. That is a precedent that is too high for you to overcome. It's not an on-the-spot last resort precedent, it's the way our universe works whether you understand it or not. If coincidence cannot be ruled out, you must remain agnostic.

But the sloppiness is unforgivable, so you don't even make it to the precedent. Arriving at the start date from the end date, using multiple calendars, and blind misinterpretation of the text.

The prophecy of the restoration of the nation of Israel is in the Bible in Ezekiel as reported. That prophecy was fulfilled in 1948 and is undeniable. The numerical result was based on a sequence of verses which were part of a different but related prophecy. The result of 907,200 days is also undeniable. The linking of the two is problematic to you but not to me. If the prophecy of Ezekiel did not refer to Israel what was the Bible talking about?

Stahrwe has had me really intrigued by this "Ezekiel predicted 1948" claim.

A couple of sites that explain it (since Zen Master Stahrwe has seen an explanation as beneath his immortal status) are
http://brittgillette.com/WordPress/?p=16 and http://www.alphanewsdaily.com/mathprophecy2.html

Warning!! Be careful to have a sick bag next to the computer before visiting these sites!!

Here is the real dope.

Ezekiel wrote:“Now lie on your left side and place the sins of Israel on yourself. You are to bear their sins for the number of days you lie there on your side. You will bear Israel’s sins for 390 days – one day for each year of their sin. After that, turn over and lie on your right side for 40 days – one day for each year of Judah’s sin.” Ezekiel 4:4-6

Okay, 1948 and the Nakba, as any moron can see in PLAIN ENGLISH. I mean, if English was good enough for Ezekiel, it should be good enough for everyone today!!

Wait, you say, Where is 1948 in Ezekiel 4:4-6??

O ye of little faith, you moronic grasshopper. You are forgetting Leviticus 26, which says a day is a week!?! Ezekiel says there are 390 + 40 days = 430 days of sin. 430 years, one day per year (minus of course HOW OBVIOUS 70 years time already served) = 360 years X SEVEN as per the OBVIOUS Leviticus line = 2520 years. Then OBVIOUSLY switch to 2483 years (=2520 x 360/365.25) because the Jews (except of course the brilliant prophet praise be his name Ezekiel) supposedly thought there were 360 days in a year, and whammo, 537 BC + 2483 years = May 15 1948 to the day. Ezekiel prophesied the Nakba!!! You atheist grasshoppers are as idiotic as insects, maybe reptiles, definitely witches, if you can't follow that

I don't know what your intentions were with that second link Robert? But it appears you shot yourself in the foot with it. But with the exception of christians who grasp at straws to solidify bible prophecy no one is going to sit down and try and figure that out they are just going to take the bibles word for it.

Azrael wrote:I don't know what your intentions were with that second link Robert? But it appears you shot yourself in the foot with it. But with the exception of christians who grasp at straws to solidify bible prophecy no one is going to sit down and try and figure that out they are just going to take the bibles word for it.

Azrael, what do you mean? The second link is just more fundamentalist garbage. For it to shoot me in the foot would mean it has some merit. Is that what you think?

The 1967 claim is hilarious Robert. These are the delusional morons that can't see the quote mining attempts of the NT writers to try and plug the Christ myth in as fulfillment of OT prophecy. Once you start analyzing the context of the OT verses used the whole things opens up and it's plainly clear that the NT writers were trying to piece work something together and present it as biblical, but the Jews never really bought it. They could tell that the effort was a botch work. And the Christians eventually persecuted the Jews for not accepting these quote mines as valid prophecy fulfillment.

We both know all of this of course Robert, but just to say it out loud the fundies today are simply following an example set forward by the NT writers - in terms of quote mining OT scripture for self serving results. Camping was raised with that mentality and it's little wonder that he's come up with ideas that he's come up with. If you can between Ezekiel and Leviticus like that, well then it's just a small step to start trying to jump between 2 Peter and Genesis to find God counting down to the flood in one myth, and then Peter refering back to the flood while abruptly adding that people should not be ignorant that to God a day is like unto a thousand years. This is hardly different than Stahrwe's apologetic subscription to the 1948 fallacy or what-have-you. The only different is that Camping contradicted the mystery timing sequence for the end of Aeon / World motif. That's it. Campings interpretation is at least in context, Peter declared a day is like a thousand years while calling attention to the flood. But Camping firm date for a literal world wide flood is the main problem. First we'd have establish an historical global flood in the first place.

Robert Tulip wrote:

Azrael wrote:I don't know what your intentions were with that second link Robert? But it appears you shot yourself in the foot with it. But with the exception of christians who grasp at straws to solidify bible prophecy no one is going to sit down and try and figure that out they are just going to take the bibles word for it.

Azrael, what do you mean? The second link is just more fundamentalist garbage. For it to shoot me in the foot would mean it has some merit. Is that what you think?

No. Not what I think. I guess I assumed that you were showing its merit in some odd way. No I agree its just fundamentalists garbage pure and simple.

The prophecy of the restoration of the nation of Israel is in the Bible in Ezekiel as reported. That prophecy was fulfilled in 1948 and is undeniable. The numerical result was based on a sequence of verses which were part of a different but related prophecy. The result of 907,200 days is also undeniable.

Show me, step by step. You'll see point blank that it isn't denial. It is the truth that no such prophecy exists. Watch as you scramble with what the passages really mean, and attempting to justify the use of 2 calendars, and attempting to justify picking the "start date" by subtracting from the end date. You won't even get far enough to be dead ended by non-sequitur.

Why don't you answer the specifics? You keep going on as if you can support each logical connection, but won't touch the specifics with a 10 foot pole.

Come on Guru Stahrwe, lead the way to truth. These atheist grasshopper's need a master lesson in prophetic interpretation, why not bring down the hammer and prove this thing once and for all?