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Still no atheist logic being shown here

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sonoman
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Re: Still no atheist logic being shown here

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Robert Tulip wrote:I picked up this book enthusiastically a few years ago.

The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ

Unfortunately I found it was just Edgar Cayce-style imaginative 'channeling' of so-called Akashic Records. Quite bereft of facts. Like Scientology and Mormonism. Stick to facts.
Yeah, it's rehashed theosophized Christianity. The author's not Jewish, probably not even an Aquarian because there's nothing radically different in it. The same criticism I have of all attempts to capture Christ by Hindus or Buddhist Western enthusiasts, doesn't ring true to the historic pattern of exclusiveness of the Jewish monopoly on God.

Actually Acharya and all mythicists trying to paint Jesus Christ as a sun god make the same error. If Christ were a Jewish sun god, because Egypt plays such an important religious influence on Judaism and thus Christianity, Christ's name would another Lazarus derivative, an "Eleazar" showing the connection to the Egyptian dying/resurrection sun god, Osiris. But Jesus Christ is in the Saturn, EL Elyon, tradition, because that's where the Aquarian Humanitarian Model is being developed. "One Way", and the real meaning of the Celestial Torah is to keep this Humanitarian Model uppermost in human minds which explains why the Jews accepted the fierce protectiveness of the Taurowet tradition while they rejected the astrological tradition because they couldn't compete with Egypt's astrological technology-so they decried Signs and images of God to go for the Word of God that they could control because they wrote it. And this is why Celestial Torah Christianity is so unique now. No religion, no nation, no ethnic group on earth can claim it. Not even yours truly here who rediscovered it through revelation at first then God-guided research and pass the information I've found along to future generations which will be able to receive it as for our times, only those who hear the Christ Aquarian Call will receive this new yet ancient form of Christianity.
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Chris OConnor

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Re: Still no atheist logic being shown here

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You're literally nuts.
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johnson1010
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Re: Still no atheist logic being shown here

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Sonoman, you say that god guided your research.

What does that mean to you exactly?

Your research has led you down certain paths of discovery, and that was good, and therefore godly, or guided by god?

God set you some homework assignments, "read chapters 1-70 over the weekend"?

Do you hear voices? Or are you just inexplicably inspired and intuitive?

I should say if you've got an actual dialogue going with god, why don't you try to get him in the game a little bit? Tell him to reveal himself. Tell him to talk to everybody, and not just special people like yourself.

Ask him, for me, why he's so damned concerned that you get this business right about pitchers of water, or whatever, and doesn't lay into you with some serious change-the-world with free energy, or anti-starvation pill revelation?
In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
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Chris OConnor

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Re: Still no atheist logic being shown here

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johnson1010 wrote:Ask him, for me, why he's so damned concerned that you get this business right about pitchers of water, or whatever, and doesn't lay into you with some serious change-the-world with free energy, or anti-starvation pill revelation?
And for me, Sonoman, ask God during your next conversation why he cares about pitchers of water and not the 20 children that were executed point blank by Adam Lanza recently. In my opinion this God of yours is a heartless prick if he spends his time talking to people like you instead of actually preventing the daily barbaric acts that happen throughout the world. Imagine the terror those teachers and children experienced as they waited their turn to be shot. If God can talk to you I have to believe he can step in when he is needed elsewhere. But no, your God was busy with his astrological lesson when Adam forced his way into the school and started to fire his gun.
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Re: Still no atheist logic being shown here

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These are exactly the issues presented in the book The Man Who Was Thursday.

It is a cop-out to blame God for the Adam Lanzas unless you are willing to give up free will.
Do you really want God to eradicate all evil?
Should He use His definition of evil? Of course He must.
If so, then no human will be left.
n=Infinity
Sum n = -1/12
n=1

where n are natural numbers.
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stahrwe

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Re: Still no atheist logic being shown here

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Let me clarify my previous comment; the issues focused on in TMWWT deal with order v. chaos, good v. evil, law v. free will, not the Aquarian Gospel which I also have a copy of and found it hopelessly muddled.
n=Infinity
Sum n = -1/12
n=1

where n are natural numbers.
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johnson1010
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Re: Still no atheist logic being shown here

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Or God, being omnipotent and not lacking in imagination, could very easily change every person in existence to have free will, yet unwilling to participate in evil.

For instance, there are people who have never seriously given any consideration to killing someone else. That person is just as capable of murder as anyone else. They still have "free will" whatever that may turn out to be, and yet they would never murder anyone.

God could certainly make that the baseline for morality and judge us each in how we differ from that starting point.

But if god sets limits on us then we can't have free will!

God, if he were actually responsible for our creation has already set limits on us. I can't shoot lasers out of my eyes. This would be very helpful in everyday situations. Man would have invented fire much earlier in history. But it could also be used to kill people from a distance. God, if he played any part in our creation, has already denied us the ability to kill with laser eyes. He's removed that possibility from our field of choices. He's made it impossible for us to subjugate others with mind control, even though the benefits of telepathy would be hard to overstate.

So if god was involved, he's already set the parameters of what it is possible for us to do. If he wanted to exclude things like rape, genocide, torture, and slavery from our available options it would have been as easy as creating the universe. No problem at all, in other words.
In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
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Chris OConnor

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Re: Still no atheist logic being shown here

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Stahrwe, I just want a God that is purported to be loving to not allow little children to be murdered. To me this seems reasonable. Any human father that knows their child is going to be murdered, has the power to prevent the murder, yet opts to not get involved would be behind bars. Why can't we demand the same from God?
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Re: Still no atheist logic being shown here

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sonoman wrote: Where are the atheist answers to my challenge questions? You haven't addressed them. Until you or any atheists here provide answers to these basic challenge questions, here they are spelled out again, so you won't be fudging with diversionary slander and other side issues, 1) explain how human beings as the successful top species in the food chain, successfully meeting every environmental challenge which means each evolutionary advance has been successful, come to have their brains hardwired to receive and process spiritual phenomena if spiritual phenomena is non-existent? 2) explain why there is at least 40,000 years of human beings paying great amounts of attention to these same supposedly non-existent forces if it is a delusional state of mind shared by the vast majority of human beings still today?
Again, do you acknowledge that there are countless "spiritual experiences" that must be in contradiction to what you believe? Obviously they can't all point to truths about the universe. If so, then the fact that lots of people have such experiences proves nothing. If anything it would be the opposite of the point you would like to make -- spiritual revelation must be an extremely unreliable guide to knowledge.
3) Answer why any rational person would accept atheists answers to the question of God and the existence of spiritual reality when science is still virtually in its infancy stage of knowledge of the way the universe works, i.e., it's illogical to make judgments on phenomena that is opaque to us now
The atheist "answer" is not a theory, it is simply that there is no reason to believe in God.

But you think it's logical that God is telling you to find the answers in ancient astrology. Gotcha.
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johnson1010
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Re: Still no atheist logic being shown here

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1) explain how human beings as the successful top species in the food chain, successfully meeting every environmental challenge which means each evolutionary advance has been successful, come to have their brains hardwired to receive and process spiritual phenomena if spiritual phenomena is non-existent?
Humans have become the top of the food chain due to our intelligence, and the development of culture. Culture in it’s most basic form, I would say, is the set of behaviors which allow many organisms to co-exist together and thrive for the support of all individuals. This is accomplished through communication. What are we communicating to eachother? Patterns that we notice in the environment. Hoof-prints = prey. Water may lead to edible plants, tall grass shifting against the wind may indicate an animal in hiding.


These are natural patterns that we observe, then layer an additional communication layer on top of to encrypt the information to be decompressed by the listener. When I type “Dog” that means something different to you than “lion”. Some irregularities are out there of course.


one of these is a dogg, the other a lion.


Image


Image

But anyway, one of our most successful traits is the identification of patterns and to create narratives that explain to us, and to others what those patterns mean for our survival.

We are such good pattern seekers that it leads to false positives.

http://www.booktalk.org/a-million-cause ... t8841.html?

Which means we are pre-disposed to seeing intent. Why? Because paranoia saves more lives than ambivalence.

The guy who’s ready to run every time he hears a twig snap might look like a fool 99 times out of a hundred, but on that one time when it was a bear, he’s got a head start while you are still laughing at him.


And so when things happen that are not readily explained we attribute stories to them. The more mysterious the event, the more outrageous the story we conjure to explain it away. Some of these stories become religion.

2) explain why there is at least 40,000 years of human beings paying great amounts of attention to these same supposedly non-existent forces if it is a delusional state of mind shared by the vast majority of human beings still today?

For the vast majority of history we were hunter gatherers. We were subsistence livers. We did not gather excess. We had no place to rest. We were immediately concerned with where we would drink fresh water, where we would find food, and where we could shelter from the hazards of the wild environment. In these circumstances there was little time available to conduct rigorous experiments to get to the bottom of things.


Eventually we caught on to farming. This lead to excess of food, and the break-up of labor. It meant that not everyone needed to be immediately concerned with where the food would come from, or where to shelter their family. It left people with time on their hands. Communication gets better, writing begins to develop. Ideas are passed more easily from generation to generation, and with the establishment of trading comes ideas from across the plain, or across the sea.

Like magic, knowledge that you don’t have to work to acquire yourself is available. This village learns about irrigation by digging ditches, this village learns about crop rotation. Combine them together and both are better off than either apart.

In all this time serious inquiry, rigorous inquiry, was hard to come by. Because the daily pressure to survive was too strenuous, and because the method of passing information was too poor, and provincial. (verbal)

In the last few thousand years though, people have stopped moving so much. We’ve had time to think things through. And nearly as soon as that was possible there have been people who compared experimental results with the magical stories people invented to explain the things they could not easily explain. And the people who learned from reality told the people who heard the tales that they were wrong.

Now information is easier to come by than ever before. More and more people have access to information gathered by making inquiries into the way the world actually works, rather than just what everyone always assumed about the world, passed generation to generation.

People still cling to these old stories, for a variety of reasons. Emotional attachment, ignorance, fear of change, indoctrination… But having the real information at hand is having it’s effect. The second largest, and fastest growing demographic in America, for instance, identifies as “non-religious”. Because we don’t have to rely on myths and fairy tales anymore. Because science gives results.
In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
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