BookTalk.org

wow, that was a short chapter! It would have been a lot shorter if the author didn't say there wasn't official explanation for the Church's change of heart to non whites three times.

Was this really enough material for a chapter?

it's amazing though how "faith" seems to defeat logic and sense, i mean these guys just go along making stuff up, contradicting themselves, changing the story at will, and people just go along with it rather than face the showdown with truth.

i suppose for some the thought of overturning their faulty foundation is just too much to bear so they kind of accept the obvious inconsistencies instead.

i wonder what the "defection" rate is, the escape ratio, how many make it out alive enough to recover somewhat.

the psychology is amazing, truly the most dangerous thing in the world is between our ears, or someone elses.

this is a struggle for most religions. I saw something interesting where the science advisor to the pope recommended against making a statement about evolution (i think it was evolution). his reasoning was that science is changeable. Who knows, maybe we'll scientifically find an idea that works even better than evolution, sort of how Einstein's idea's on gravity replaced Newton's. His logic was that science can change, but the pope is supposed to be infallible. Therefore, any statement can set up the papacy for being wrong in the future. The pope did make the statement, but now we see the potential problem.

It's even harder to get it right if you are a person trying to figure it out, without lots of people with Phd's advising you.

It took hundreds of years for the church to say the earth goes around the sun. As rationalist, we are amazed at the inconsistencies. But for a true believer, all of this can be explained away.

As ginof said, this was an extremely short chapter, but an important one. Not so much on the racial issue, but for its showing of how what Prophet Joseph Smith said is an "eternal truth," until Prophet Brigham Young gets a later clarification from God. which becomes an "eternal truth" until a later Prophet gets an updated revelation.

To get a quick view on why black people were banned from the priesthood, check out the subject "The God Makers" on YouTube. I saw this film (the first version) many years ago, and also read the book. For a short animated 'history' try http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuO2Ov_D08c.

There are almost too many entries to count under this topic on You Tube.

Of course, Mormons do not hold a monopoly on Biblical justification for racism. Two quotes from Genesis:

"...And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him." Genesis 4:15 (KJV).

"And he [Noah] said Cursed by Canaan [son of Ham and grandson of Noah]..." Genesis 10:25 (KJV).

Racist 'Christians' have been using these verses for centuries to claim that Cain and later Ham (or Canaan or both) were turned black, an thus all dark skinned peoples are cursed by God.

Why would a black person even consider being a part of any religion? Why are they satisfied with a white God? I don't get it. Why would black people want to be a part of a racist community, yet a racist church? Even though the Mormons changed the rules on race doesn't mean they feel any different about it. They change their minds more often than their holy underwear. They will do anything to get more people into their flawed belief system. If I was religious and black, I would have changed race on the God and his sidekick, long ago. I don't think there is anything in the bible stating color, but then I am not a big bible buff.

Cattleman: I did find it interesting that those verses are used as the justification. While it does say to "mark" those people, the verses don't say what the mark is. While I'm not familiar with the lineage, why isn't the mark something like webbed toes or being cross eyed? From what little there is in the verse, I don't see any justification for one vs. the other. Am I missing something?

I actually had the opportunity to discuss this with the Mormon missionaries that came to my house when I lived in CA. The very young, and likely not given a better reason by her elder, elder told me it was because they (meaning African-Americans and others of color) did not *deserve* the priesthood. Until the 1970's, whole groups of people weren't worthy because they hadn't absorbed enough good "European" behavior.

The kid really believed this. And when he left, I was all over my phone calling people. I love talking to the missionaries.

Mahree wrote:I don't think there is anything in the bible stating color

Saint Paul said in Christ all are one, and there is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female.

More pointedly, Christ says in the Beatitudes that the meek will inherit the earth, and the least will be first, while the Blessed Virgin Mary asserts that the kingdom of God will involve a social revolution with the hungry full of good things and the rich cast down. All these claims are deeply anti-racist, indicating that racism is an evil that is incompatible with true Christian love and worship.

Thank you! I was worried I might spend the remainder of my life in wonder. I will stick to Mormonism, one religion is far too much for me as it is.