BookTalk.org

I've been thinking lately about how an interest in, passion for, or advocacy of science seems to be a pretty common motif among atheists. Today the thought occurred to me that, in accordance with Thomas Khun's principle that people rarely reject one paradigm without having another paradigm available to serve as it's replacement, I started to wonder if maybe science wasn't playing that role for a lot of people who grew up religious but later apostacized. I don't say that in order to lend support to that hoary old argument that science is just another form of religion for atheists, but it does seem to me at least plausible that science could facilitate a person's switch to atheism if it provided some way of making up for the sense of order one would lose in giving up a religion they had grown up with. So this question is directed specifically to those atheists who started out in a religious background, and who feel strongly about science. Do you think you would have made the break with religion when you did had you not had science?

Feel free to talk about your answer in more detail if you think you can illuminate the subject that way.

Yeah, I've wondered about this.

Personally, I think that the strong science advocacy among prominent atheists stems from the same bias that leads researchers to overestimate the importance of the subject they study and the method they use to study it.

The functional assumption made by those operating in the role of scientist is that the universe is a closed system and that it is its own explanation. Fruitful research will push a person to believe that the assumptions that underly the research must be valid. Because science has had such success by adopting these assumptions, certain individuals with a background in science tend to find it particularly frustrating and/or irritating when people speak as though these assumptions are not true, which is what motivates such people to speak out about atheism.

Most atheists I meet in my day to day life, tend to be apathetic toward religion and questions regarding the origins of religion etc. They're less than likely to write books or appear in the media talking about atheism. I'm not sure that science is really important to them at all. I suspect that the relationship between atheism and science may be less close than a reading of New Atheist literature might suggest. Just because prominent atheists are scientists does not mean that science is important to atheists in general.

MadArchitect wrote:So this question is directed specifically to those atheists who started out in a religious background, and who feel strongly about science. Do you think you would have made the break with religion when you did had you not had science?

Feel free to talk about your answer in more detail if you think you can illuminate the subject that way.

Yes. In fact, I did. My break with religion arose more from the realization that god-belief itself seemed to be a nonsensical idea. The more I thought about the idea of a god or gods, the more I came to think the idea was based more on people's preferences than on any external reality. Lots of people claimed to believe in a god. But when I tried to find out what that meant, I encountered all sorts of answers, from those that were obviously cribbed from one or another of the holy books of various religions to those that were wholly the product of individual imaginations. There didn't appear to me to be a rational basis for holding such beliefs to be true, although I could see they might serve the emotional or psychological needs of some people.

My interest in science actually grew out of atheism, not the other way around. Attending public school in South Florida in the late '40s and '50s, my education in the natural sciences was very poor and once I was out of high school, I avoided the subject in college as much as possible. At that time, since I was a believing Christian, I also thought I had the answers to the most important questions and really didn't need to be concerned about what science had to say.

Once I had left god-belief behind, I still wanted to find anwers to questions about the nature of the universe, about living organisms, about human culture and history (although this last wouldn't necessarily fall into a strict interpretation of science as such).

That interest was further stimulated by Carl Sagan's "Cosmos" television series. By the time I watched it, I already knew I didn't believe in a god. After watching it, I was more curious about what science had to say. That curiosity has stayed with me to the present.

So, for me, the interest in science was caused by my atheism. Atheism wasn't the product of an interest in science.

George

Science was not a factor in my realizing there is no god. I was at the end of high school (Catholic boy for 12 years to that point) and did not have even the slightest interest in science that I have now. I just realized one day, after a life of doubt, that there really was no god and that the various gods/religions do not match up for a very good reason: They are all created by man.

After HS, I became MORE interested in science.

Mr. P.

So, Mr. P, would you say the opposite, ie. that, like George, breaking with religion was what led you to a greater interest in science?

MadArchitect wrote:So, Mr. P, would you say the opposite, ie. that, like George, breaking with religion was what led you to a greater interest in science?

Not necessarily. I do feel that 'breaking with religion' has made me a more confident person though. It has loosed my curiosity and my willingness to challange what I know to be bunk.

Mr. P.

Almost certainly I would have done, but the fact is I didn't. Carl Sagan's Cosmos was a huge influence on me; I think what it did was solidify in my mind what I believed in and, more significantly, what I did NOT believe in. I think he gave me the philosophical underpinnings for the reasons WHY religious answers did not satisfy or convince me, and helped me realise what a wonderful, awesome place the Universe is with or without gods and that gods are not needed to explain it. So I started with Carl Sagan, and moved on from there.

It was after Cosmos that I began to refer to myself as an atheist, so it also emboldened me and gave me that essential self-confidence. I later changed the A to a capital, thus making myself an Atheist.

Mad: Do you think you would have made the break with religion when you did had you not had science?

I think science has had a significant influence upon my religious practice and theology. Ecology and environmental studies have made it clear that I am not in league with religious practice or theology that neglects human impact on the planet: i.e., if a substantial piece of their mission leaves out a "Green Faith" component- then I'll find another community. The good news is that religious communities and theological traditions are realizing the value of Creation Care in their beliefs and practice. It's a little known dimension that bridges Protestants with Catholics, Mainlines with Evangelicals, and Religious traditions across the planet: and, it even works to bring Scientists and Religious folk into solidarity around political and practical ways of life that can make real, positive change.

Likewise, as I encountered the sciences of anthropology and sociology, as well as psychology and history: my view of the religious universe grew, became more complex, and less able to adopt simple black and white explanations: became more comfortable with multiple perspectives and various traditions cohabitating in ambiguity and incompleteness.

There is also something about the scientific spirit to experiment and explore that has encouraged me to seek out actual experiences in various religious contexts and rituals: prayer, meditation, fasting, feasting, worship ceremonies, chanting, singing, and joining in solidarity around social justice and ecological issues. Science has prompted an openness and curiosity and willingness to learn from various ways of life.

I broke with religion my first year at a small religious college where I was preparing to become a missionary. Science was not directly involved, although a strong drive to know the "Truth" was. My science education was minimal at the time, and it was not uppermost in my thoughts, although my rudimentary understanding of the scientific method did help me understand the value of critical thinking. I came to look to science as a source for factual truth fairly soon afterwards, but only recently have I begun to see that it can be an inspiration for "spiritual enlightenment" (for want of a better term) as well.

misterpessimistic wrote:

MadArchitect wrote:So, Mr. P, would you say the opposite, ie. that, like George, breaking with religion was what led you to a greater interest in science?

Not necessarily. I do feel that 'breaking with religion' has made me a more confident person though. It has loosed my curiosity and my willingness to challange what I know to be bunk.

Mr. P.

I just want to add to my original response. I was actually thinking about this last night before falling asleep...

I always felt throughout my whole life, from my earliest memories, that the belief in religion/god/supernatural occurences were somehow not quite right. I went through the motions, trying to copy what the adults around me said they felt and how they felt, but it all seemed like 'pretend' to me.

I never got anything from prayer, I never 'saw spirits' or ghosts or anything other people told me they saw, I never felt awed by church going (I was an alter boy for a period as well) and I saw priests not for the messengers of god they were supposed, but as regular people. I felt fear of course, I was not convinced I was correct in my notions and who wants to be punished by god for not believing? I always thought that hell was a pretty harsh sentence simply for not believing in something. What about living a good life?

But the short of it is, I always saw right through religion and the myths that make it up. I was never happy with the twisted logic that no matter what happens, it was god's plan...that seemed like a cop out to me. So while I did officially turn away from religion around senior year, I was always a non-believer as I look back on it all.

Mr. P.