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1st Book -- Is Jesus Enough?

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stahrwe

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Re: 1st Book -- Is Jesus Enough?

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Interbane wrote:
Says ...?
I presume you are intending to credit Carl Sagan with the quote.

So we are in a position where we have two competing statements with different sources:

Carl Sagan

vs

Jesus.

Carl Sagan is taking a dirt nap

Jesus is alive in Heaven

I pick Jesus.

As you will reject this LOGIC, let me clarify, what authority does Carl Sagan have over my life, or yours for that matter? What authority did he ever claim to have? On that basis, his statement, which is relished so much and dished out at every opportunity is just another glib retort.
Last edited by stahrwe on Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Interbane

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Re: 1st Book -- Is Jesus Enough?

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As you will reject this LOGIC, let me clarify, what authority does Carl Sagan have over my life, or yours for that matter? What authority did he ever claim to have?
Who cares about the source? Denying a path of reasoning because of the 'authority' of a person is every bit as fallacious as it's opposite. Follow the link I posted and read.

Also, are you now so sick and tired of logic that you have chosen to ignore it? You will do your own reasoning OUTSIDE of logic? You don't believe what Carl Sagan says because Jesus is a higher authority to you?

:lol:

It's a downward spiral from here.
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stahrwe

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Re: 1st Book -- Is Jesus Enough?

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Interbane wrote:
As you will reject this LOGIC, let me clarify, what authority does Carl Sagan have over my life, or yours for that matter? What authority did he ever claim to have?
Interbane, who are you quoting above?
Why don't you ever show the username of the person you are quoting?


Who cares ...? is every bit as fallacious as it's opposite. Follow the link I posted and read.
You never fail to disappoint. Another fallacy. You are the one holding Carl Sagan's statement up as a metric to judge Biblical evidence and when I point that he has no claim to authority on the subject you cry fallacy. How sad.
interbane wrote:are you now ...
I did not say I was 'sick and tired' of logic. Stop making things up. I am well aware of logics limits and fundamental flaws.
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Re: 1st Book -- Is Jesus Enough?

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An extra-ordinary claim might be considered something that does not fit in with the every day observance of whomever you are talking to.

So, Lets assume a person who has only ever lived on a small island occupied by only small indigenous birds.

Telling this individual that there is such a thing as a blue whale would be an incredible claim, because according to his knowledge there are no animals even close to that size or scope. An animal larger than several of my lean-to shelter, lined up end to end? That's rediculous!

But extraordinary evidence for this creature is plentiful and available. Evidence which fully confirms what might otherwise be considered an unbelievable claim. For instance, you could take this guy diving and put him right next to a blue whale.

Extraordinary claim, meet extraordinary evidence.

Before the early 1900's it was roundly asserted that heavier than air flight was impossible. Many claimed that it was, however, and that was greated as an extraordinary claim. How could a vehicle which was many tons ever fly through the air?

Extra-ordinary proof came by way of the aeronautic industry where early pioneers achieved lift off of objects which were much heavier than air. Now, indeed, C-747 and other very heavy craft regularly traverse oceans on nothing but the wind.


Or synesthesia.

Some people claim that they see colors and patterns which nobody else sees. They say that they can actually see sounds. This is an extra ordinary claim. Or that text clearly printed in black ink is in fact colored differently.

This is an extraordinary claim which would usually be dismissed as delusion out of hand, but there is concrete evidence in support of it in the form of neuroimagery and through repeated testing which demonstrates the reality of this mis-handling of labels that takes place in the brain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia
Synesthesia is hard to fake, and easy to prove as a genuine perception. The simplest approach is test-retest reliability over long periods of time, where synesthetes consistently score much higher—around 90% after years, compared to 30–40% after just a month in non-synesthetes even when they are warned they will be retested—using stimuli of color names, color chips, or a computer-screen color picker providing 16.7 million choices.[1][43]


The automaticity of synesthetic experience. The panel on the left is how a non-synesthete perceives the matrix, while a given synesthete might perceive it like the panel on the right.[28]Modified versions of the Stroop effect are popular. In the standard paradigm, it is harder to name the ink color of the word "red," for example, when it is printed in blue ink than when the ink is red. Similarly, if a grapheme → color synesthete is shown the digit 4 (which he sees as red, say) in blue ink, he is slower to name the ink color than when it is printed in red. He sees the blue ink, but the same sort of conflict responsible for the standard Stroop effect occurs between the ink color and the automatic synesthetic color of the grapheme. The conflict is strongest when the ink color is the opponent color to the synesthetic one (e.g., red vs. green), indicating that synesthetic color perception uses the same mechanism as the perception of real colors.[49]

Cross-sensory Stroop tests are possible: for example, a music → color synesthete must name a red swatch while listening to a sound that produces a blue sensation,[50] or a musical key → taste synesthete must identify a bitter taste while hearing a musical interval that tastes sweet .[51] Likewise, Stroop tests work even in those for whom merely thinking about a numeral elicits color. Take a person who sees 7 as yellow and 9 as blue, and make the task one of having to say a math solution out loud followed by naming a color square. In the illustration, having to answer “7” and then “yellow” is congruent with the subject’s synesthesia, which unconsciously primes him to respond faster than controls. The automatic blueness of 9, however, interferes with naming the green square, slowing him down compared to controls.

Synesthetic colors can also improve performance for some synesthetes. Inspired by tests for color blindness, Ramachandran and Hubbard presented synesthetes and non-synesthetes with a matrix of 5s in which embedded 2s formed a hidden pattern such as a square, diamond, rectangle or triangle.[28] For someone who sees 2s as red and 5s as green, for example, synesthetic colors help zero in on the embedded figure. Subsequent careful studies have found substantial variability among synesthetes in their ability to do this.[15][24] It certainly does not happen instantaneously; while synesthesia is evoked very early in perceptual processing, it does not occur prior to attention.[52][53]
In short, extra-ordinary evidence would be evidence which is irrefutable and in total acordance with the extraordinary claim. The more extraordinary the claim, the more definite, convincing and irrefutable must be the proof.

Of which you have presented not one example.
In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
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stahrwe

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Re: 1st Book -- Is Jesus Enough?

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johnson1010 wrote: This is just about the most literal reading of biblical
Johnson1010,

was the artwork you posted an original drawing you did?

If not, where is the artist credited?
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stahrwe

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Re: 1st Book -- Is Jesus Enough?

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johnson1010 wrote:An extra-ordinary claim might b

Of which you have not provided one example
The only thing more amusing than watching one construct one's own trap is when the process involves such heroic absurdity. You take the man on the island with the birds. I'll take the millions of people in China who have been raised since birth in a society where God does not exist. Yet, when told about Jesus, they become Christians and accept God.

As for proof, we have been through that. Must I cite the example of the prophecy of the refounding of Israel again. OK, prophet says Israel would be refounded as a nation in 907,200 days. 907,200 days later Israel refounded as a nation. Extraordinary prediction. Perfectly fulfilled.
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Re: 1st Book -- Is Jesus Enough?

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Of all the considerations of what makes one person a person of belief in the supernatural and makes another skeptical and questioning, the psychology of the people is what interests me the most. What is it exactly? Since I know many people of the Christian and Jewish faiths I see some causes.

They are: conditioning, custom, gullibility, lack of curiosity, comfort, appreciation of the beauty sometimes involved in some of these religious services and buildings, art, music etc. I also see many negative qualities that religious belief emboldens in its practitioners; such as arrogance, superiority, condescension, intolerance, intrusion, lack of understanding.

Maybe when we more completely understand the psychology behind religious belief we will be able to understand why with so much contrary evidence, it has still such a strong hold even in places like the U.S,.A, where it is not longer axiomatic that every person will be a member of one or another church.
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Re: 1st Book -- Is Jesus Enough?

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Psychology is fascinating. Jung was fascinating -- I love how he got his best ideas from his spirit guides "Philemon", "Basilides" and “Salome”. Personally I think the guy was as insane as Nietzsche but both of them are held up as pioneers of psychology and as having great insights into the human mind.
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Re: 1st Book -- Is Jesus Enough?

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No, that is not my work.

I did change the caption slightly.

As to the original artist, or the original satirist, i don't know who that was.
In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
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Re: 1st Book -- Is Jesus Enough?

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Of course i realized while typing that you would interpret my post as proof for your position, Star. You take everything you see, including withering, devestating criticism of your ludicrous assertions, as actually being proof of them.

It should be obvious to everyone who is still attempting to use their brains for critical thinking, rather than as a repository of listless assertions designed to protect an indefensible fairy tale from the blister of reason, that what i posted does not validate your claims in the least.

You are a lost cause at any rate, since you so gleefully surrendered the thinking part of yourself to the baser pack mentality of religion years ago. The effort was undertaken to illuminate to others just what i consider the phrase "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" actually means, and what evidence could be generated to meet that requirement.
In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
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