if you would listen closely to what Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin have to say, at least in my eyes, they know exactly what they are saying and doing.

It would be impossible for them to have as many followers such as yourself unless their arguments sounded airtight and reasonable. That does not mean they are right. If you want objective, intelligent examinations on their points, read essays and journals from the intelligentsia. Many college professors have blogs. Don't listen to a damn soccer mom, and a nutcase Mormon who's trying to brainwash America. I stand by my ad hominem. This country is falling apart because we're following and electing idiots.

I most certainly don't care to defend Obama. Don't mistake people's criticisms of Bush as defense of Obama. There is a difference. Bush is truly at fault for many of the problems blamed on Obama. The blame should be placed where it truly is due, without fearing that someone will accuse you of defending some politician or another.

The nonsense Stahrwe just spouted about Barney Frank, etc, is nothing more than propaganda.

There is a war going on where the rich are doing everything they can to get the government off their backs so they can accumulate more wealth. They are winning. If you want to know where propaganda originates, follow the money trail.

You're acting like freaking puppets, wake up!

geo wrote:

stahrwe wrote:The Obama apologists like to claim the country was floundering due to the policies that Bush enacted but the fact is that much of what he was saddled with were the result of decades of liberal entitlement ideas ala Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, et al. Bush tried to reform Fannie and Freddie and was blocked at every turn. Obama had an historic opportunity to change the direction of this country. He had the political capital and goodwill of the nation but instead of focusing on the economy he undertook his own idealogical agenda and forced it trough congress with the help of an obliging Speaker and Senate Leader.

Now we have deficits orders of magnitude higher that any in previousl history, as the US veers into the social policy morass that Europe is trying to extricate itself from.

A better analogy to Obama is that your house is on fire so you call the Obama fire department who shows up and sprays gasoline on it.

Here's some classic selective thinking. Blame everything bad on Democrats and credit everything good to Republicans. That way everything bad that happened during eight years of a Republican administration can actually be the Democrats' fault!

I happen to agree with you about deficit spending. I think it needs to be our nation's number one priority. And I also agree that Obama flubbed his chance. I doubt I will vote for him again unless the Republicans bring up some serious whacko to run against him which unfortunately is entirely possible.

But here's the thing, wouldn't the Republicans have racked up some deficit spending as well? Our economy had gone into a nose dive and stimulus spending was called for.

The question of the day is how would the Tea Party be different? What's the plan? I haven't heard one.

The Tea Party Movement is just that, it isn't an organized group with one voice but there are some general principles the groups tend to share:

Smaller federal government

Term limits for congress

Plain language bills, my preference is a rule that no bill can be longer than the US Constitution with the Bill of Rights.

Every memeber of congress upon voting for a bill must state that he or she had read it and understands what is in it.

Every bill must be accompanied by a statement of intent. Said statement must clearly indicate what the purpose and the intention of the bill is.

Congress routinely exempts itself from application of the laws it passes, end that.

Immediately institute a 10% across the board cut in the federal budget.

Cut it 10% again next year.

Any member of Congress who says that it is too hard to pass bills are immediately removed from office. We do not elect people to do easy things.

'that'll do pig'

Interbane wrote:

if you would listen closely to what Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin have to say, at least in my eyes, they know exactly what they are saying and doing.

It would be impossible for them to have as many followers such as yourself unless their arguments sounded airtight and reasonable. That does not mean they are right. If you want objective, intelligent examinations on their points, read essays and journals from the intelligentsia. Many college professors have blogs. Don't listen to a damn soccer mom, and a nutcase Mormon who's trying to brainwash America. I stand by my ad hominem. This country is falling apart because we're following and electing idiots.

I most certainly don't care to defend Obama. Don't mistake people's criticisms of Bush as defense of Obama. There is a difference. Bush is truly at fault for many of the problems blamed on Obama. The blame should be placed where it truly is due, without fearing that someone will accuse you of defending some politician or another.

The nonsense Stahrwe just spouted about Barney Frank, etc, is nothing more than propaganda.

There is a war going on where the rich are doing everything they can to get the government off their backs so they can accumulate more wealth. They are winning. If you want to know where propaganda originates, follow the money trail.

You're acting like freaking puppets, wake up!

It is not propaganda about Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, you forgot to mention Dodd, or maybe you didn't forget.

It's not about accumulating more wealth, it's about keeping the pittance we have worked a lifetime to accumulate!

I agree with a number of your bill passage overhauls, Star.

People like to imagine that the change in tax policy applies to them.

If you arent already a multi-millionaire, you will benefit from the new tax code.

The only money getting additional taxes applied is to money over and above 200,000 dollars a year.

A big one to me is term limits.

I think 8 years in, 8 years out. for all members of the legislative branch. No ancilliary jobs as lobyist or anything like that either.

They should get clear of government and cool down, then run again later.

It's not about accumulating more wealth, it's about keeping the pittance we have worked a lifetime to accumulate!

Exactly! Meanwhile billionaire's like Warren Buffet paid a smaller percentage of tax than you did last year! There are so many loopholes in not only tax laws, but every law. Loopholes which are in place due to lobbyists and lack of regulation.

Think of how much less you'd have to pay in taxes if the rich people paid their fair share. Their propaganda outlets complain about "class warfare", and people eat it up without realizing we've already been at war for 3 decades. Perhaps I'm being a hypocrite. If I were rich, I'm sure my story would change 180 degrees.

Here in Florida it is very scary. People are allowed to carry guns her. When I'm sitting in a restaurant and I hear someone espousing the Tea Party, but really using it as a cover for racism, hatred and greed, and that person is packing a gun; I get scared.

I fear for this country's soul. I see a lot of people who's actions say "Hurray for me and the hell with you".

stahrwe wrote:

geo wrote: The question of the day is how would the Tea Party be different? What's the plan? I haven't heard one.

The Tea Party Movement is just that, it isn't an organized group with one voice but there are some general principles the groups tend to share:

Smaller federal government

Term limits for congress

Plain language bills, my preference is a rule that no bill can be longer than the US Constitution with the Bill of Rights.

Every memeber of congress upon voting for a bill must state that he or she had read it and understands what is in it.

Every bill must be accompanied by a statement of intent. Said statement must clearly indicate what the purpose and the intention of the bill is.

Congress routinely exempts itself from application of the laws it passes, end that.

Immediately institute a 10% across the board cut in the federal budget.

Cut it 10% again next year.

Any member of Congress who says that it is too hard to pass bills are immediately removed from office. We do not elect people to do easy things.

'that'll do pig'

Thanks for that. If the Tea Party is generating a dialogue in this country about term limits and cutting the federal budget, then that's a good first step. My problem generally with people like Beck is that they tend to demonize "liberals" which is polarizing and doesn't solve anything. I'm a moderate conservative voter and increasingly we represent the swing vote in this country. I'm sure Glenn Beck means well and has some good ideas, but he seems very political and he tends not to abide by the principle of reciprocity.

So, to summarize: in the context of opinions and debate, the principle of reciprocity states that we should respect the reasonableness and the goodwill of those with whom we disagree, and to treat them with civility, even if we judge their opinions to be unreasonable and/or their views to be unjust or immoral.

http://jeffreyellis.org/blog/?p=192

Interbane.........Sarah Palin is not a brainless person that we all made her out to be during the presidential election. She happens to be very knowledgeable and although I believe that if she runs for office in the next presidential election, she probably wouldn't win but she does know her stuff when it comes to politics. Glenn Beck on the other hand, is very knowledgeable and knows exactly what he is talking about. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know how bad the economy is in this country. I believe in both of their grassroots efforts to try to save the damage already done, mostly by Obama. As far as I'm concerned in my lifetime, and I am almost 50 years old, Obama is the worst thing that happened to our country and our economy.

that is flat out rediculous.