Hello Lawrence!!!

I thought your essay was very helpful. It helps to get ones thoughts sorted out and on the right track.

I can't quote from it because it is awhile since a read it, although it is in the cupboard at my bedside with other books which are 'special' to me.

I'm inclined to quote from whatever I am currently reading, and I am usually reading books on whatever subject I happen to be contemplating at the time.

Hence, sometimes I am missing from Booktalk, because what I'm reading doesn't coincide with what is being discussed on here.

Interbane wrote: Why is it that life is universally considered precious and sacred?

Because we live it once only. Once our life is gone we can't return back.
For instance, if people donot consider their life sacred and precious then they will not do their best and work hard because they see no value in their existence.

Hello Nadeen- I am very pleased to meet you.

wrt Interbanes statement.

Life is obviously not considered sacred in all cases. What about the lives of animals in laboratories, being used for experiments as though they were just non-sentient.

What about people being used as slaves - and apparently there is more slavery in the world today than there ever was at other times in history.

We evidently consider our own lives sacred, and those of our families, friends and loved ones.

Do you think it is just our consciousness that we consider sacred? If a person is brain-dead, we agree to switch off the life-support, even though we might love that person dearly. So it isn't merely life, it is awareness, perhaps?

Sentience is what we value, well in theory.

One of the tools they used to justify slavery in america was that africans were somehow sub human, or to say that they were not fully sentient.

With the advance of artificial intelligence and cloning, this is something we will no doubt have to confront in new and interesting ways.

If you clone yourself, but specifically make it vegitable-like, is it OK to use this cloned body for spare parts? can you make it a slave? It isnt even a naturally born creature, it was cloned. Can they be murdered with impunity?

What about artificial intelligence? Robots or computer systems with similar levels of sentience of dogs or even humans. Is it OK to turn the power off on these devices?

johnson wrote:

Can they be murdered with impunity?

What a thought-provoking post.

There are those who think that children born with a certain degree of disability, should be terminated (murdered?)

But some of those children have a greater capacity for happiness and enjoyment of life, than a perfectly able-bodied person.

Have we the right to terminate their existence just because we don't want to look at them or think about them?

Perhaps we should measure a person's capacity for enjoyment rather than mental or physical prowess? I have always thought that the gift of appreciation is the gift I would give if I were a fairy godmother.

What gift would you give if you were a fairy godmother johnson/interbane/nadeen??

The gift of appreciation. I like it.

Penelope

It's actually Chapter 13, not 14.

starhwe wrote:

Penelope

It's actually Chapter 13, not 14.

Sorry, but anyway I got the gist.

Penelope wrote:Life is obviously not considered sacred in all cases. What about the lives of animals in laboratories, being used for experiments as though they were just non-sentient.

You're absolutely correct, life is not considered sacred in all cases. How do we make a blanket statement about it's sanctity when we haven't defined what we mean by "life"? If we narrow it down to human life, then the question is always posed, "when does life begin?". Life, on this planet anyway, began several billion years ago in the primordial soup. It has simply continued since then, evolving into different forms. Cells get created and cells die. Life continues, evolves. Creatures come to be, and species, and some of them die. All of them die eventually. But life just continues on.

So is life sacred? Is human life sacred? Is it really consciousness that we consider sacred? Or maybe not. I would swat a moth in a second, but I would never dream of even touching a butterfly for fear that I would harm it. To the best of my understanding the butterfly has no consciousness but I consider it sacred, or maybe I only want to preserve it for my own pleasure.

I guess then we also need to define sanctity. Does sanctity simply mean we won't kill it? Does it mean that we honor it? Respect it? I don't know.

Serial murderes were mentioned earlier. I don't respect them, I don't honor them. But I don't believe we should kill them due to certain legal and pracical issues. I would protect their lives, but I would never suggest that they are sacred.

It's so difficult to come up with hard and fast answers to these questions.

Colin said:

Serial murderes were mentioned earlier. I don't respect them, I don't honor them. But I don't believe we should kill them due to certain legal and pracical issues. I would protect their lives, but I would never suggest that they are sacred.

When a person is born, they are innocent, and I think perhaps we all have a tacit, unspoken agreement that that new life is sacred.

There is something shocking about the slaughter of innocents, is there not?

There seems to be a certain level of behaviour by which a life's sanctity is forfeated. The damaging of children being one of them. I understand the legal and practical issues regarding the killing of serial killers, but if they are rational, sane human beings to all intents and purposes, then I believe in capital punishment. I am thinking of the Moors Murderers here in England. Those people made a rational decision to enjoy the torture and killing of innocent children.....and they should have been painlessly destroyed, because they weren't fit to live in society.

The parents of their victims suffered for the rest of their lives, because the two murderers were kept in prison.....and were still alive and well.

The sanctity of a marriage is destroyed through adultery....is it not? Whether a religious ceremony has been observed, or a civil ceremony. We agree (most of us) that that union is sacred and although the partnership might continue afterwards, most would agree that it is not the same.

So the sanctity can be destroyed, at least our sense of sanctity.

So, I think that we all have a sense of what is sacred, whether we choose to acknowledge it or not. It does sound very pious and perhaps, pompous, and it does cause us a whole heap of moral dilemmas, but I think we ignore it at our peril.