It is very difficult for someone like Starwhe, if, as it seems, he is one of those people who believe that The Bible is the Word of God. He is not discussing, he is defending what he holds as Sacred. I don't agree with him, but I do believe that I understand his attitude.

You know - the Muslims declare Jihad on those who take the name of their prophet in vain. (I think??)

It does not help towards examining the texts, rationally. And whilst, as you say, I am entitled to put forward my opinion.....Within my own code of ethics, I am wrong to offend another person when it is not absolutely necessary.

There are those who think it is important, to 'help' people towards shedding their religious beliefs. I think said people will shed them when they are good and ready and it will only cause turmoil and anger to try to force them to do so before they are ready.....and history seems to be bloodier thus.

Penelope wrote:It is very difficult for someone like Starwhe, if, as it seems, he is one of those people who believe that The Bible is the Word of God. He is not discussing, he is defending what he holds as Sacred. I don't agree with him, but I do believe that I understand his attitude.

You know - the Muslims declare Jihad on those who take the name of their prophet in vain. (I think??)

It does not help towards examining the texts, rationally. And whilst, as you say, I am entitled to put forward my opinion.....Within my own code of ethics, I am wrong to offend another person when it is not absolutely necessary.

There are those who think it is important, to 'help' people towards shedding their religious beliefs. I think said people will shed them when they are good and ready and it will only cause turmoil and anger to try to force them to do so before they are ready.....and history seems to be bloodier thus.

I'm not asking anyone to "shed their religious beliefs." I'm just suggesting that if one person wants respect and civility and to have their points heard but not attacked in a discussion, he/she should reciprocate. I don't want to unconvert anyone as much as I don't want to be converted. I just "call's 'em as I see's 'em," as they say.

Bleachededen said:

I just "call's 'em as I see's 'em," as they say.

I believe yer!!!

I think the problem is that Starwhe is 'defending'....whist the rest of us are 'discussing'. Well, we are 'attempting' to discuss...I think...perhaps, maybe.

Ho Hum......Who'd be a diplomat?

As i voted, i would guess ive prob read more than 1/2 of the bible. But its not my thing.

i tend 2 read more non-fiction than fiction. And like historically accurate and scientifically valid books of non-fiction. Also like my fiction 2 b more fun and interesting.

Yes, most of it at least twice.

However I am not a Christian. I guess that I am agnostic. I do think that there is probably no God. But, one never knows.

There is so much of interest in reading religious texts weather one believes or not, not just the Bible, but the Koran, the Hindu Epics, Buddhist Texts, and surly lots of stuff that I have not gotten to yet!

Just in the Bible I see much true wisdom, plus other things that are insightful and thought provoking, as well as ideas and opinions that seem abominable. There is also so much that has influenced, art, culture, history, and human ideas in general.

There are surprises too. Perhaps even sections, particularly in the Old Testament, that seem to be written from an Agnostic or Non Believer's slant (Check out Ecclesiastes for instance).

Enporer said:

Just in the Bible I see much true wisdom, plus other things that are insightful and thought provoking, as well as ideas and opinions that seem abominable. There is also so much that has influenced, art, culture, history, and human ideas in general.

There are surprises too. Perhaps even sections, particularly in the Old Testament, that seem to be written from an Agnostic or Non Believer's slant (Check out Ecclesiastes for instance).

I agree with just about everything you say in your post. We need to remember that The Bible is a whole bundle of books, bound together. They are in the wrong date order sometimes and written by different authors of different character and of different political and religious opinion.

As far as I can see, there is very little cohesion. Even though I have heard Bishops try to argue that the book is cohesive.

If one tries to argue for its inerring accuracy and literal fact, one can appear to be a complete Wazzock.

Penelope wrote:

Enporer said:

Just in the Bible I see much true wisdom, plus other things that are insightful and thought provoking, as well as ideas and opinions that seem abominable. There is also so much that has influenced, art, culture, history, and human ideas in general.

There are surprises too. Perhaps even sections, particularly in the Old Testament, that seem to be written from an Agnostic or Non Believer's slant (Check out Ecclesiastes for instance).

I agree with just about everything you say in your post. We need to remember that The Bible is a whole bundle of books, bound together. They are in the wrong date order sometimes and written by different authors of different character and of different political and religious opinion.

As far as I can see, there is very little cohesion. Even though I have heard Bishops try to argue that the book is cohesive.

If one tries to argue for its irroconcilable accuracy and literal fact, one can appear to be a complete Wazzock.

Yes, there are clearly many many differing points of view expressed in the Bible.

Something interesting that I ran into when reading various online articles; some scholars contend that in some of the Bible's books that there are actually direct references and refutations of other books.

For instance Proverbs 2:1

"For the ungodly said, reasoning with themselves, but not aright, Our life is short and tedious"


Does seem to be a near quote and criticism of Ecclesiastes.

Of course, what is probably the most obvious variation of ideas has been discussed for centuries, the seemingly irreconcilable of the character of God depicted in the Old Testament verses that of the New Testament.

Emperorbjt wrote:Yes, most of it at least twice.

However I am not a Christian. I guess that I am agnostic. I do think that there is probably no God. But, one never knows.

There is so much of interest in reading religious texts weather one believes or not, not just the Bible, but the Koran, the Hindu Epics, Buddhist Texts, and surly lots of stuff that I have not gotten to yet!

Just in the Bible I see much true wisdom, plus other things that are insightful and thought provoking, as well as ideas and opinions that seem abominable. There is also so much that has influenced, art, culture, history, and human ideas in general.

There are surprises too. Perhaps even sections, particularly in the Old Testament, that seem to be written from an Agnostic or Non Believer's slant (Check out Ecclesiastes for instance).

What do you suppose the point of Ecclesiastes is?
Do you know who is believed to have written it?

stahrwe wrote:Do you know who is believed to have written it?

I do, but the question isn't directed at me.

I might be wrong, but I don't mind if you laugh at me.

I thought it was Solomon, as in Song of Solomon.

Historically speaking - I believe he wasn't very wise. But that is just heresay on my part as I haven't read much pure history on this. However it was a professor of history giving the lecture, who had no religious axe to grind.