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1984

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President Camacho

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Re: 1984

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This book is really amazing. What makes it likable is that it is an example. A warning for sure, but ever more an example. It's a folly that can be looked at and recognized as such by a society that has been drilled to cherish its 'freedoms'.

The only thing this book is missing is the "how-to" formula. Then this book would be truly hated.
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Re: 1984

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I read this in high school and again as an adult. I didn't appreciate it in the slightest the first time. The second time I read each word in awe. It was like reading it for the first time. My favorite bit was when he ate good chocolate for the first time. The mental image of that will forever linger in my imagination every time I indulge in the dreamy goodness of really good chocolate.

I would as soon die than to live in a world without good chocolate or free thought. ;)
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Re: 1984

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Someone mentioned that Orwell hated Stalinism. I am sure that is true. However, BB is both Stalin and Hitler. Orwell hated overbearing government period. He was a "public school" boy who served in the British Colonial Police force who soon found he hated colonialism. And, judging by his novella Down and Out in Paris and London, he was none too found of the French either.
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Re: 1984

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Camacho, if you like this book, I have a feeling you might also enjoy The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood. It's more intimate and revolves more around religious control and the oppression of women and their reproductive organs, but it is also an example of a world in which freedom and thinking outside the box are outlawed, and men and women alike are killed for going against the system that has been set up for "the greater good."

Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 would also be a good fit, and is more along the lines of Orwell, where television has taken control and anyone owning books or attempting to read or even recite from memorized texts are taken away and imprisoned or killed, and books are burned by "firemen" who are considered true heroes for removing criminals and destroying the incredibly dangerous threat of literature. It's fascinating and incredibly terrifying, and I think you'd really like his style as well as the story.

Just some suggestions for future reading that are still more contemporary than the books you normally gravitate toward. :-P

Keep sharing your 1984 experience with us. I'm loving it! :)
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President Camacho

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Re: 1984

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I'm about 130 pages into the book now.

Because the depth of the book is such, Blair has begun to make his message more explicit. He went in depth to describe a city that is full of "steel and concrete, of monstrous machines and terrifying weapons - a nation of warriors and fanatics, marching forward in perfect unity, all thinking the same thoughts and shouting the same slogans, perpetually working, fighting, triumphing, persecuting - three hundred million people all with the same face."

He wants the reader to get the idea that although Winston is a very real person who lives in constant fear, the people who surround him are a part of a culture that makes its citizens robotic and void of humanity. Blair colors Oceania in gray. It has no emotion. Evidence of this can even be seen in Winston when he kicks a severed hand into a gutter as if it was a crinkled up piece of paper.

This world is in stark contrast to that of the one in which he meets the dark haired girl at their secret rendezvous. The grass is green, there are plenty of flowers to pick, there are birds singing, and they are nearly without fear.

The girl represents freedom. Freedom to fulfill humanity's most primal desires. Good and healthy desires. But the tragic thing is, which Blair has to make so explicit to the reader, is that even this act which is supposed to be pure is tainted - it is a "political act." Winston gets physically charged by hearing how promiscuous she is. She IS wanton lust to him. She is the absence of self denial. She is everything the party is against... and this turns Winston on immensely. She is "corrupt to the bones." This primal urge, this animal instinct, this evidence of humanity represents a way to rip the party apart for Winston.


Another thing that escaped me in which Blair had to point out was that Winston was ready to die the entire time before he was passed the note that said, "I love you." It totally blew right past me. The whole beginning of the story Winston was committing suicide. "At the sight of the words I love you the desire to stay alive had welled up in him..." Winston wants to live for love even though he's never experienced it.

There are other things worth mentioning such as the fact BB has made sure that people really have no time alone to themselves to think. There is always someone around and the telescreen is always on. This is a hint for people to try and get some healthy alone time.

Other things I noticed was that Winston is a creature of some reflex. He acts sometimes without thinking - actions which have significance such as when he kicks the severed hand into the gutter. When the dark haired girl appears to be dead before his eyes, Winston immediately kisses her reflexively. He's in love. He's achieved something the party does not want him to have. In this sense he has weakened the grasp of BB over his mind and actions.

The beginning of TWO is really a display of the power of love. It's somehow showcasing humanity's fight against an establishment whose mores are contrary to nature. And even when the world is crumbling around them, their faces covered in the plaster of exploding buildings, and with the threat of death ever looming - they pursue each other and love.
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Re: 1984

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I have read this book twice in my life. I will likely never read it again as I find it too troubling.

I will not give anything away since not everyone has read this book. Many people talk about how the room 101 part is disturbing as are the he last few words of this book.

Those passages are troubling, however there is another part that is seldom mentioned. This section pushes my buttons in a way that I cannot completely explain.

It is towards the end when the main characters meet in the park on the cold March day. I can almost recite several of the paragraphs by heart. This part of the book chilled my soul as no work of fiction ever has. To me, what has happened to the protagonists is so unnatural and so inhuman that I would have preferred to have read that their limbs were cut off and eyes gorged out. On the both occasions that I read this work I was depressed for days.

Nineteen Eighty-Four is indeed a great work.
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Re: 1984

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bleachededen wrote:Camacho, if you like this book, I have a feeling you might also enjoy The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood. It's more intimate and revolves more around religious control and the oppression of women and their reproductive organs, but it is also an example of a world in which freedom and thinking outside the box are outlawed, and men and women alike are killed for going against the system that has been set up for "the greater good."

Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 would also be a good fit, and is more along the lines of Orwell, where television has taken control and anyone owning books or attempting to read or even recite from memorized texts are taken away and imprisoned or killed, and books are burned by "firemen" who are considered true heroes for removing criminals and destroying the incredibly dangerous threat of literature. It's fascinating and incredibly terrifying, and I think you'd really like his style as well as the story.

Just some suggestions for future reading that are still more contemporary than the books you normally gravitate toward. :-P

Keep sharing your 1984 experience with us. I'm loving it! :)
I agree the "The Handmaid's Tale" and "Fahrenheit 451" are great works.

The comparison between "Nineteen Eighty-Four" and the "Fahrenheit 451" is interesting. There are many similarities. One little obscure parallel is the way chestnut trees are symbolic in both.

Though I feel that Orwell's is the greater and deeper work, I find that that "Fahrenheit 451" is so much more hopeful and defiant against oppression. As to not give anything away, I will just ask anyone who has read both books to think about what the Protagonist of the book does to the Antagonist in "Fahrenheit 451" . In some ways an inverse to what happens in "Nineteen Eighty-Four" .

While I am not a huge fan of the philosophies Ayn Rand, her book "Anthem" is also interesting to compare to "Nine-Teen Eighty-Four". While on the surface the books seem similar, some of the messages conveyed by two works are diametric opposites.
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Re: 1984

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1984 reminds me of this passage from The Road to Serfdom by FA Hayek, published in 1944.
Collectivism means the end of truth. To make a totalitarian system function efficiently, it is not enough that everybody should be forced to work for the ends selected by those in control; it is essential that the people should come to regard these ends as their own. This is brought about by propaganda and by complete control of all sources of information.

The most effective way of making people accept the validity of the values they are to serve is to persuade them that they are really the same as those they have always held, but which were not properly understood or recognized before. And the most efficient technique to this end is to use the old words but change their meaning. Few traits of totalitarian regimes are at the same time so confusing to the superficial observer and yet so characteristic of the whole intellectual climate as this complete perversion of language.

The worst sufferer in this respect is the word "liberty." It is a word used as freely in totalitarian states as elsewhere. Indeed, it could almost be said that wherever liberty as we know it has been destroyed, this has been done in the name of some new freedom promised to the people. Even among us we have planners who promise us a "collective freedom," which is as misleading as anything said by totalitarian politicians. "Collective freedom" is not the freedom of the members of society but the unlimited freedom of the planner to do with society that which he pleases. This is the confusion of freedom with power carried to the extreme. It is not difficult to deprive the seat majority of independent thought. But the minority who will retain an inclination to criticize must also be silenced. Public criticism or even expressions of doubt must be suppressed because they tend to weaken support of the regime. As Sidney and Beatrice Webb report of the position in every Russian enterprise: "Whilst the work is in progress, any public expression of doubt that the plan will be successful is an act of disloyalty and even of treachery because of its possible effect on the will and efforts of the rest of the staff."

Control extends even to subjects which seem to have no political significance. The theory of relativity, for instance, has been opposed as a "Semitic attack on the foundation of Christian and Nordic physics" and because it is "in conflict with dialectical materialism and Marxist dogma." Every activity must derive its justification from conscious social purpose. There must be no spontaneous, unguided activity, because it might produce results which cannot be foreseen and for which the plan does not provide.

The principle extends even to games and amusements. I leave it to the reader to guess where it was that chess players were officially exhorted that "we must finish once and for all with the neutrality of chess. We must condemn once and for all the formula 'chess for the sake of chess.' "

Perhaps the most alarming fact is that contempt for intellectual liberty is not a thing which arises only once the totalitarian system is established but can be found everywhere among those who have embraced a collectivist faith. The worst oppression is condoned if it is committed in the name of socialism. Intolerance of opposing ideas is openly extolled; The tragedy of collectivist thought is that, while it starts out to make reason supreme, it ends by destroying reason. There is one aspect of the change in moral values brought about by the advance of collectivism which provides special food for thought. It is that the virtues which are held less and less in esteem in Britain and America are precisely those on which Anglo-Saxons justly prided themselves and in which they were generally recognized to excel. These virtues were independence and self-reliance, individual initiative and local responsibility, the successful reliance on voluntary activity, noninterference with one's neighbor and tolerance of the different, and a healthy suspicion of power and authority. Almost all the traditions and institutions which have molded the national character and the whole moral climate of England and America are those which the progress of collectivism and its centralistic tendencies are progressively destroying.
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President Camacho

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Re: 1984

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I've finished 1984. Wow. That's all I'm going to say. Very intense.
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Re: 1984

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That made me smile. I love that post book feeling, when "wow" is all you can bring from thought to formed word. Incredible. I'm glad you shared that moment. :)
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