Oh I get it. I didn't know that Camacho was referring to the Evolution of God. I thought he was saying, god, why does anyone want to talk about that. And I didn't know what "that" was.

Anyway, Camacho, I'm fascinated with the concept of belief, mostly the psychological and evolutionary components of it. People believe in god for all kinds of reasons and over the centuries our concept of "god" has evolved. It's pretty interesting stuff. The author doesn't talk about "God" per se but how our concept of god has changed from hunter-gatherer times until now. It's a look at what makes people tick.

DWill wrote:

geo wrote:I haven't read the federalist papers, but I'd be willing to tackle that. Right now I'm reading Chaucer and The Evolution of God, so maybe soon.

Many of our founding fathers were amazing individuals. I'm guessing most of these guys were educated in Europe? I don't know much about Hamilton per se. Franklin was pretty amazing too, but he had some personality quirks that might make him less than an optimal candidate.

geo, are you reading Chaucer in Middle English? That's the way to go! I've always meant to read Chaucer again. I'm not sure that in Chaucer class we were required to read the complete Tales.

Hey DWill, I'm reading The Penguin Classics version which has both Middle English and translated pages side by side. Honestly, I look at the Middle English and can't make much of it. I might get a better handle on it as I go on.

Most of the Canterbury Tales volumes out there are selections from the overall work. This one's quite good. I'm enjoying the hell out of it. Why don't you and Camacho read along?

http://www.amazon.com/Canterbury-Tales- ... 804&sr=1-6

i don't think that our electoral process really does ferret out the best and brigtest of our leaders.

There are far more profitable jobs, which are given to less scrutiny, and actually allow for the exercise of greater personal power, such as the CEO of a corporation. The term CEO instantly conjures the image of some villain to my mind, but i don't think that has to always be the case, or that most of these people started off that way.

There is often just too much bull in the way for a person to submit themselves to it. I suspect that a lot of the real idea wranglers work out of the spotlight as advisors.

The electoral system is pretty busted right now, but i don't have a good way to fix it.

DWill wrote: Hey Comacho, sorry to interrupt, but I'm curious to know how you deal with the matter of god or God when you come across it in your extensive reading of classics. Don't you find that, like it or not, the god-thing is actually a big part of the humanities? Do you just ignore all of that? A friendly question.

How I deal with the matter of god or God when I come across it in my extensive reading of classics...

I'm really a hypocrite. I'm reading Hesiod's Theogony and Works and Days right now. Theogony deals only with the Gods. You see, this book explains exactly how certain gods came to be. It's all about the Greek Gods... or as we like to think of it now - Mythology. MYTHOLOGY!!!!!! Can you believe that??!?!?!?!?! hahahaha!!!! We tell our children with a smile that these were just fanciful stories of conjured up super-beings meant to explain why things are the way the are - you know, before science and CHRIST!!!! HAHAHAHAAAA!!!! Can you believe it!?!?!?!?!? LMAO! There are some that are reading this shrugging their shoulders and wondering what I'm getting on about. I guarantee it!!!!

God is inseparable from history because man has made it so. But that's where the idea belongs!!! HISTORY. We need to, as adults, put these toys away. Then I can tell my children with a smile all about American Mythology.

Creating Gods is something humans have done forever. I can't escape some form of man's idea of a god or gods when I read my "classics". Christians managed to get a good monopoly on religion by explaining that other forms of idolatry are different and wrong from what they do. It's crazy.

But! - Throughout history man has also been trying to reveal religion for the sham it really is. So there has always been a war between good and evil - with evil winning at almost every turn (stupidity).

I agree with finding out why people choose to create gods - but I think I know.

It's a form of groupthink where one main azzhole gets a group of people to believe what he's saying and then, by gaining a foothold in society, increases power by making life difficult for those who don't accept the true faith. Various methods are employed such as ostracism, withholding items of want or need, making breathing difficult, certain death, getting others to shun them... man, you name it! They can get really creative when it comes to these forms of punishment for not accepting the 'true faith'. They create this fervor and madness. It's madness!!! Once you can create that madness and your followers are lapping up the kool-aid, you're f*cking done my friend! Congrats, you have yourself a legitimate religion. Good luck keeping it from branching out into individual little mad groups of their own based on your original idea.

President Camacho wrote:I agree with finding out why people choose to create gods - but I think I know.

It's a form of groupthink where one main azzhole gets a group of people to believe what he's saying and then, by gaining a foothold in society, increases power by making life difficult for those who don't accept the true faith. Various methods are employed such as ostracism, withholding items of want or need, making breathing difficult, certain death, getting others to shun them... man, you name it! They can get really creative when it comes to these forms of punishment for not accepting the 'true faith'. They create this fervor and madness. It's madness!!! Once you can create that madness and your followers are lapping up the kool-aid, you're f*cking done my friend! Congrats, you have yourself a legitimate religion. Good luck keeping it from branching out into individual little mad groups of their own based on your original idea.

I agree President Camacho.

It is amazing how powerful the ostracism part is. Even in our free society when one does not have to fear legal or (usually) economic ramifications of not conforming it helps perpetuate beliefs. I know several people, who profess to be atheists or agnostics, who send their children to religious instruction. Their rational is that, "They have to be some religion." One of these atheist acquaintance told me that in front of his in - laws, he professes to be a Christian so as to not cause trouble!

I have a million times more respect for a genuinely religious person then for people who just go along like that.

In "The God Delusion" Richard Dawkins postulates the idea of "Memes", which are basically ideas that are self perpetuating and spread like genes or diseases. I think an idea like religion, that is perpetuated by people who do not even believe it, is clearly going to be very successful over time.

If my job depended on it... if a parking spot depended on it... I would say I believed in Christ, Mickey Mouse, Superman... whatever.

This is for Camacho, from The Knight's Tale . . .

Here is Theseus’s father, Egeus, in what I would call the climax of the story. He imparts his wisdom to Palamon and Emelye, and I will paraphrase here: quit wasting time and start enjoying life because you only get one life and it's time-limited, you know.

“The oak, that takes so long to grow so tall
From its inception as an acorn small,
And lives so long, as can be seen by all,
Yet in the end it will decay and fall.

“Consider, too, how that the hardest rock
Beneath our feet, upon which we do walk,
Wears down, as in the pathway it doth lie;
The broadest river sometimes will grow dry;
The greatest city fade; and by and by,
As everyone can see, all things shall die.

“Concerning men and women it is true
As well, that in time one, or in time two –
That is to say, in youth or else old age –
They’ll die, the king as well as his young page;
Some in their beds, some in the ocean deep,
Some racked in pain, some in a peaceful sleep;
It matters not; all share one destiny.
All things shall end, as everyone can see.

“What causes this but Jupiter, the king,
That prince who is the cause of everything?
Who makes all things return from whence they come?
You guessed it - yes, the answer is the same.
No matter how hard to resist you try,
You can’t escape the fact that you must die.