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Obama: Not even close to the worst president ever.

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JulianTheApostate
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Re: Obama: Not even close to the worst president ever.

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phillies4evr wrote: don't even go there with me about the war that started after 9/11. All those thousands of American citizens lost their lives that day would agree that we had a retaliate somehow for what was done. The Moslems came into our country, became citizens here, and then they did what they did for no reason at all. It was rumored that this was done to get back at the first Bush...... it was our only option but to go overseas and retaliate for all the damage that had been done here and all the lives that were lost. Do you believe that we should have just sat back and did nothing at all? If your family members have been killed for no reason at all, we would you suggest? Would you suggest that we do nothing and let this happen over and over again? The second Bush had no choice but to send us to war to show these Moslems and others who were involved that we mean business; we were coming there to do our job the way they had done to us. In my lifetime, the best president was Reagan. That is my opinion and just let it stand. I can tell you are a stout Democrat and so you feel you can lambash all the Republicans. Wake up and smell the roses! Obama took a situation that was starting to become a critical one, and he hasn't even been president for two years and look at the state of our economy! So now, can you say for sure that this is all the Republicans fault?????? do you get the Rasmussen polls in your e-mail. If you do or even if you don't, only 28% of the citizens of this country who were polled are in favor of what Obama has done. That number is sickening and yet its true. This will be my last post on here as it is stressing me out too much because I have an illness in which I have to stay calm. So be it as it may, just read the Rasmussen reports and you will see the truth in that report is always accurate! They declared long before the election that the tea party would win and as a tea party activist, a strong victory was to be had on election Day. so, KUDDOS to the tea party!
Your argument about the Iraq War ignores a key fact: Iraq had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks, nor for that matter did Muslim immigrants to the US. W started an unnecessary war that killed more Americans than died on 9/11, along with a vastly greater number of Iraqis. That war is one of the reasons W is the worst president in US history.

Regarding the economy, it's not clear what you think Obama should have done differently. Most Tea Partiers opposed the stimulus package and the bailouts, but the economy would have been far worse without those measures. Obama isn't perfect: his economic plan was too moderate, as Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman explained in a recent column:
Mr. Obama’s problem wasn’t lack of focus; it was lack of audacity. At the start of his administration he settled for an economic plan that was far too weak.
...
But he chose a seemingly safer course: a medium-size stimulus package that was clearly not up to the task. And that’s not 20/20 hindsight. In early 2009, many economists, yours truly included, were more or less frantically warning that the administration’s proposals were nowhere near bold enough.
Rasmussen polls are not trustworthy due to their Republican bias, as Nate Silver explained.

If hearing contrary views stresses you out, maybe you should avoid political forums. After all, I'm calmly expressing my sincere beliefs, which I developed while following current events since I was a teenager. However, it's probably better for your intellectual growth to be exposed to a wide range of viewpoints.
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Re: Obama: Not even close to the worst president ever.

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phillies4evr wrote: Obama took a situation that was starting to become a critical one, and he hasn't even been president for two years and look at the state of our economy!
Really, Phillies? Looks like someone might want to take an economics class. The economy doesn't change overnight, and Obama started getting blamed right away for what happened when Bush was in office for EIGHT years.
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Re: Obama: Not even close to the worst president ever.

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Interbane wrote:Phillies:
All those thousands of American citizens lost their lives that day would agree that we had a retaliate somehow for what was done. The Moslems came into our country, became citizens here, and then they did what they did for no reason at all.
JimWatters:
It's all about redistribution from the "rich" white people to the poor black people.

Wow. :saddam:
Politics is an area where getting the truth can be very difficult due to the ambiguity of data. The potential for biased information is very high and instead of being able to reach objective truth, folks usually end up seeing what they want to see and not seeing what they don't want to see (conformation bias).

Jim, if you don't mind me asking, where do you get most of your news?
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Re: Obama: Not even close to the worst president ever.

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Most of you are clueless about who you voted for. Probably blinded by Bush hatred.

This housing bubble started taking off after Bill Clinton and Congress added new provisions to the Community Reinvestment act that allowed poor people (i.e. inside Red Line Districts where blacks neighborhoods were) get massive loans (they could never pay back). Due to Federal agencies like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (and Democrats) lying about how the program was doing subprime mortgages were sold to banks as a supposedly solid investment. When gas prices raised to over $4 or $5 a gallon for over 6 months, this caused many who had a subprime mortgage unable to pay their monthly bill. This started stacking up foreclosures until Bear Sterns, AIG, and other national banks crumbled from their large investments in subprime mortgage bundles.

Obama was/is a member of a radical Christian church that teaches that Jesus is black and white people are the root of all evil. It has strong ties with socialism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_liberation_theology

Obama said that the U.S. Supreme Court did not go far enough when it abolished slavery. There should have been reparations to all freed black (men) like free houses and monetary reimbursements.





I can't change your mind if I smacked a brick against your head. So I'm leaving this blinded Liberal discussion.
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Re: Obama: Not even close to the worst president ever.

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Between McCain and Obama.. yes, I'd agree with you. Just the thought of Palin being president freaks me out. :x
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Re: Obama: Not even close to the worst president ever.

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One more for the children.

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Re: Obama: Not even close to the worst president ever.

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Due to Federal agencies like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (and Democrats) lying about how the program was doing subprime mortgages were sold to banks as a supposedly solid investment.
I don't doubt this has a lot to do with it. Democrats are guilty for their part in the economic crisis. So are Republicans. The list of deregulations from Republicans allowed the bubble to happen as much as anything the Democrats did, if not more. The only sensible position to take to get away from 'winner takes all politics' is Independent.
Obama was/is a member of a radical Christian church that teaches that Jesus is black and white people are the root of all evil. It has strong ties with socialism.
Right, and he's seven feet tall and shoots lightning from his arse. What did he do, exactly, to make him a bad president? Your raging about him is scattered, none of the shots hit the mark. Your words are fueled by propaganda to take your eyes off the real problem.

The real threat to our nation is that private interests have so much influence in Washington. Which is my problem with Republicans, since they are primarily the party affiliated with the private interests. Listen closely to the cartoon you posted. If it's the same one I watched earlier, it mentions how a member of Goldman Sachs now works for the government. The taxes on the rich today are a third of what they were in 1970. The regulation on corporations and financial institutions(the source of much of the wealth of the superrich) is also less. Deregulation and lower taxes for the rich are primarily conservative goals.

I apologize for the number of quotes, but there are many many more. I'm amazed that so many people are so hoodwinked that they'd rather demonize Obama rather than take on the real issue. Diversionary tactics work. Fox News has it down to a science.

Andrew Greeley (Chicago Sun-Times, February 18, 2001): "It should be no surprise that when rich men take control of the government, they pass laws that are favorable to themselves. The surprise is that those who are not rich vote for such people, even though they should know from bitter experience that the rich will continue to rip off the rest of us. Perhaps the reason is that rich men are very clever at covering up what they do."

John Maynard Keynes (1936): "The outstanding faults of the economic society in which we live are its failure to provide for full employment and its arbitrary and inequitable distribution of wealth and incomes."

Harold Laski (1930): "A State divided into a small number of rich and a large number of poor will always develop a government manipulated by the rich to protect the amenities represented by their property."

George A. Akerlof (2003 interview with Der Spiegel): "What we have here is a form of looting... The rich don't need the money and are a lot less likely to spend it - they will primarily increase their savings. Remember that wealthier families have done extremely well in the US in the past twenty years, whereas poorer ones have done quite badly. So the redistributive effects of this administration's tax policy are going in the exactly wrong direction...I think this is the worst government the US has ever had."

Louis Brandeis: "We can either have democracy in this country or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."

G. K. Chesterton (1874-1936): "The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly. The rich have always objected to being governed at all."

Alan Greenspan (Mar. 13, 2007): "Income inequality is where the capitalist system is most vulnerable. You can't have the capitalist system if an increasing number of people think it is unjust."

Daniel Webster (1782-1852): "The freest government cannot long endure when the tendency of the law is to create a rapid accumulation of property in the hands of a few, and to render the masses poor and dependent."

Jim Wallis (in Sojourners magazine, March-April 1999): "The widening gap between the top and bottom of American society is now the 900-pound gorilla lurking in the background of every political discussion. It's just sitting there, but nobody is talking about it. It's time we started talking about it. Our moral integrity demands it. And the common good requires it."
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Re: Obama: Not even close to the worst president ever.

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George Bush in 2003 tried to get the House to devise regulation on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. In 2005 and 2007 John McCain cosponsored Bills that would regulate Fannie and Freddie. Democrats fought against it, as I posted the shocking video earlier in this thread.
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Re: Obama: Not even close to the worst president ever.

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I'm exhausted from people toeing their party line like Lemmings.

Both Democrats and Republicans do it. In my opinion just about everyone in this thread is doing it.

Read Robert Wright's Appendix to "The Evolution of God" about how easy it is for human beings to get sucked into believing just about anything by simply being exposed to the belief under the right conditions. In my opinion all of you appear to be brainwashed by your own political affiliations.

There is NO way Obama is as evil and destructive as the Republicans scream and NO way Bush was as much of a moron and war monger as the Democrats profess. Come on people. How the heck can two mature adults, equally educated, judge the same person so differently? The answer is simple. Those of you that already belong to the same social group as the person being judged are far more inclined to judge them favorably.

It is rare that I hear a single positive comment from anyone about any political party other than their own. Someone needs to write a book on this subject because I find it fascinating and I'm sure many other people would too. The people in this thread supporting Obama are registered Democrats or at least liberals. The two people bashing Obama are registered Republicans or at least conservatives.

Why the hell does everyone seem to ALWAYS defend their own political party? Surely this can't be how freethinkers behave. We're supposed to form our opinions independent of authority and biases but I really don't think it's happening here on BookTalk.org.

There is no way on this Earth that everyone is thinking clearly. I see people forgiving their own party and condemning every little petty misstep of the other party. Both sides are doing it.

We're all human beings with the same emotions, desires, dreams and fears. I find it really hard to believe that Democrats are judging Republicans fairly or honestly or vice-versa. People are brain washed by their social group affiliations.
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Re: Obama: Not even close to the worst president ever.

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George Bush in 2003 tried to get the House to devise regulation on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. In 2005 and 2007 John McCain cosponsored Bills that would regulate Fannie and Freddie. Democrats fought against it, as I posted the shocking video earlier in this thread.
There are exceptions to everything Jim. And not just a few exceptions, but many. The problem isn't that Conservatives are more guilty than Liberals. The problem is that all of Washington, to some extent, is guilty of it. Our political system is to money as sand is to a river. Where more of it flows, trenches are dug. It is inevitable since well funded campaigns fare better than underfunded campaigns. Politicians remember who funded their campaign, and in many cases are in bed with them. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. By repeating the mudslingings at Obama, you're doing nothing but perpetuating the propaganda of the vested interests.

Bush also had something to say on the wealth inequality:

George W. Bush (in Monterrey, Mexico, March 2002): "The growing divide between wealth and poverty, between opportunity and misery, is both a challenge to our compassion and a source of instability. We must confront it."
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