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Sarah Palin: Good, Bad or just the wrong choice?

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Do you think choosing Sarah Palin was a mistake for McCain?

Yes. She is way too inexperienced to potentially serve as President
13

59%
Yes, she may be inexperienced, but she has charm...and thats what counts.
1

5%
She has enough appeal to the masses to make her choice acceptable.
1

5%
No. She lives next to Russia, so has enough experience for me.
1

5%
Is it too late to get Tina Fey on the ticket?
5

23%
I think she was an excellent choice.
1

5%
 
Total votes: 22
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GentleReader9

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Hi, Fellas,

This economic stuff isn't a topic I know so much about, so I won't be tedious by giving an opinion. Sometimes I just regret it when I get too invested in a thing like this and I'm counterproductive and hurt or alienate people I don't mean to, which I think happened on another string recently. But coincidentally, my friend Garth just sent me this article from The Economist today (he must have spies everywhere!) and I'm not above reprinting it as my contribution of information to this discussion.

The Economist--capitalist journal par excellence--endorses a candidate

enjoy the read! G

The presidential election

It's time
Oct 30th 2008
From The Economist print edition

America should take a chance and make Barack Obama the next leader of the free world


IT IS impossible to forecast how important any presidency will be. Back in 2000 America stood tall as the undisputed superpower, at peace with a generally admiring world. The main argument was over what to do with the federal government's huge budget surplus. Nobody foresaw the seismic events of the next eight years. When Americans go to the polls next week the mood will be very different. The United States is unhappy, divided and foundering both at home and abroad. Its self-belief and values are under attack.

For all the shortcomings of the campaign, both John McCain and Barack Obama offer hope of national redemption. Now America has to choose between them. The Economist does not have a vote, but if it did, it would cast it for Mr Obama. We do so wholeheartedly: the Democratic candidate has clearly shown that he offers the better chance of restoring America's self-confidence. But we acknowledge it is a gamble. Given Mr Obama's inexperience, the lack of clarity about some of his beliefs and the prospect of a stridently Democratic Congress, voting for him is a risk. Yet it is one America should take, given the steep road ahead.

Thinking about 2009 and 2017
The immediate focus, which has dominated the campaign, looks daunting enough: repairing America's economy and its international reputation. The financial crisis is far from finished. The United States is at the start of a painful recession. Some form of further fiscal stimulus is needed (see article), though estimates of the budget deficit next year already spiral above $1 trillion. Some 50m Americans have negligible health-care cover. Abroad, even though troops are dying in two countries, the cack-handed way in which George Bush has prosecuted his war on terror has left America less feared by its enemies and less admired by its friends than it once was.

Yet there are also longer-term challenges, worth stressing if only because they have been so ignored on the campaign. Jump forward to 2017, when the next president will hope to relinquish office. A combination of demography and the rising costs of America's huge entitlement programmes—Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid—will be starting to bankrupt the country (see article). Abroad a greater task is already evident: welding the new emerging powers to the West. That is not just a matter of handling the rise of India and China, drawing them into global efforts, such as curbs on climate change; it means reselling economic and political freedom to a world that too quickly associates American capitalism with Lehman Brothers and American justice with Guantánamo Bay. This will take patience, fortitude, salesmanship and strategy.

At the beginning of this election year, there were strong arguments against putting another Republican in the White House. A spell in opposition seemed apt punishment for the incompetence, cronyism and extremism of the Bush presidency. Conservative America also needs to recover its vim. Somehow Ronald Reagan's party of western individualism and limited government has ended up not just increasing the size of the state but turning it into a tool of southern-fried moralism.

The selection of Mr McCain as the Republicans' candidate was a powerful reason to reconsider. Mr McCain has his faults: he is an instinctive politician, quick to judge and with a sharp temper. And his age has long been a concern (how many global companies in distress would bring in a new 72-year-old boss?). Yet he has bravely taken unpopular positions—for free trade, immigration reform, the surge in Iraq, tackling climate change and campaign-finance reform. A western Republican in the Reagan mould, he has a long record of working with both Democrats and America's allies.

If only the real John McCain had been running
That, however, was Senator McCain; the Candidate McCain of the past six months has too often seemed the victim of political sorcery, his good features magically inverted, his bad ones exaggerated. The fiscal conservative who once tackled Mr Bush over his unaffordable tax cuts now proposes not just to keep the cuts, but to deepen them. The man who denounced the religious right as "agents of intolerance" now embraces theocratic culture warriors. The campaigner against ethanol subsidies (who had a better record on global warming than most Democrats) came out in favour of a petrol-tax holiday. It has not all disappeared: his support for free trade has never wavered. Yet rather than heading towards the centre after he won the nomination, Mr McCain moved to the right.

Meanwhile his temperament, always perhaps his weak spot, has been found wanting. Sometimes the seat-of-the-pants method still works: his gut reaction over Georgia—to warn Russia off immediately—was the right one. Yet on the great issue of the campaign, the financial crisis, he has seemed all at sea, emitting panic and indecision. Mr McCain has never been particularly interested in economics, but, unlike Mr Obama, he has made little effort to catch up or to bring in good advisers (Doug Holtz-Eakin being the impressive exception).

The choice of Sarah Palin epitomised the sloppiness. It is not just that she is an unconvincing stand-in, nor even that she seems to have been chosen partly for her views on divisive social issues, notably abortion. Mr McCain made his most important appointment having met her just twice.

Ironically, given that he first won over so many independents by speaking his mind, the case for Mr McCain comes down to a piece of artifice: vote for him on the assumption that he does not believe a word of what he has been saying. Once he reaches the White House, runs this argument, he will put Mrs Palin back in her box, throw away his unrealistic tax plan and begin negotiations with the Democratic Congress. That is plausible; but it is a long way from the convincing case that Mr McCain could have made. Had he become president in 2000 instead of Mr Bush, the world might have had fewer problems. But this time it is beset by problems, and Mr McCain has not proved that he knows how to deal with them.

Is Mr Obama any better? Most of the hoopla about him has been about what he is, rather than what he would do. His identity is not as irrelevant as it sounds. Merely by becoming president, he would dispel many of the myths built up about America: it would be far harder for the spreaders of hate in the Islamic world to denounce the Great Satan if it were led by a black man whose middle name is Hussein; and far harder for autocrats around the world to claim that American democracy is a sham. America's allies would rally to him: the global electoral college on our website shows a landslide in his favour. At home he would salve, if not close, the ugly racial wound left by America's history and lessen the tendency of American blacks to blame all their problems on racism.

So Mr Obama's star quality will be useful to him as president. But that alone is not enough to earn him the job. Charisma will not fix Medicare nor deal with Iran. Can he govern well? Two doubts present themselves: his lack of executive experience; and the suspicion that he is too far to the left.

There is no getting around the fact that Mr Obama's résumé is thin for the world's biggest job. But the exceptionally assured way in which he has run his campaign is a considerable comfort. It is not just that he has more than held his own against Mr McCain in the debates. A man who started with no money and few supporters has out-thought, out-organised and out-fought the two mightiest machines in American politics—the Clintons and the conservative right.

Political fire, far from rattling Mr Obama, seems to bring out the best in him: the furore about his (admittedly ghastly) preacher prompted one of the most thoughtful speeches of the campaign. On the financial crisis his performance has been as assured as Mr McCain's has been febrile. He seems a quick learner and has built up an impressive team of advisers, drawing in seasoned hands like Paul Volcker, Robert Rubin and Larry Summers. Of course, Mr Obama will make mistakes; but this is a man who listens, learns and manages well.

It is hard too nowadays to depict him as soft when it comes to dealing with America's enemies. Part of Mr Obama's original appeal to the Democratic left was his keenness to get American troops out of Iraq; but since the primaries he has moved to the centre, pragmatically saying the troops will leave only when the conditions are right. His determination to focus American power on Afghanistan, Pakistan and proliferation was prescient. He is keener to talk to Iran than Mr McCain is— but that makes sense, providing certain conditions are met.

Our main doubts about Mr Obama have to do with the damage a muddle-headed Democratic Congress might try to do to the economy. Despite the protectionist rhetoric that still sometimes seeps into his speeches, Mr Obama would not sponsor a China-bashing bill. But what happens if one appears out of Congress? Worryingly, he has a poor record of defying his party's baronies, especially the unions. His advisers insist that Mr Obama is too clever to usher in a new age of over-regulation, that he will stop such nonsense getting out of Congress, that he is a political chameleon who would move to the centre in Washington. But the risk remains that on economic matters the centre that Mr Obama moves to would be that of his party, not that of the country as a whole.

He has earned it
So Mr Obama in that respect is a gamble. But the same goes for Mr McCain on at least as many counts, not least the possibility of President Palin. And this cannot be another election where the choice is based merely on fear. In terms of painting a brighter future for America and the world, Mr Obama has produced the more compelling and detailed portrait. He has campaigned with more style, intelligence and discipline than his opponent. Whether he can fulfil his immense potential remains to be seen. But Mr Obama deserves the presidency.
"Where can I find a man who has forgotten the words so that I can talk with him?"
-- Chuang-Tzu (c. 200 B.C.E.)
as quoted by Robert A. Burton
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Chris wrote:
Who said anyone should "share" what they earn with anyone other than their family or friends?
I think this is the tragedy of America that no one says you should share other than on a strictly voluntary basis. By "no one" I mean it is not a value of American society.The result is that there will always be people like Chris (or Bill Gates!) who donate voluntarily (in XIXth century Europe you called them "philanthropists"), and a vast majority of entrepreneurs who keep everything for themselves, with the blessing of their fellow countrymen.
Human beings being what they are, the only way of getting every one to share is to tax wealth and businesses.
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Mr. Pessimistic wrote:Are you saying that only Republicans are business successes? I know at least one Democrat that I can name that was a big success at business...Jon Corzine. Income tax has been with us for a while now...and when did it start? During the Civil War...by whom? Republican Abe Lincoln. And guess what...there was a graduated tax system based on income levels. Those who made more paid more. As we have seen, there are those 'earning' tens and hundreds of millions of dollars in corporate America...but god ofrbid we raise the minimum wage. Please guys....please. We see how businesses cannot and will not regulate themselves. Profit rules and only for those at the top. No one in my opinion 'earns' hundreds of millions of dollars a year. We need taxes. Where would military funding come from? Roads? Now some people differ on what to spend our taxes on. Military only, national security, helping those who need help (including banks and investment companies now too huh?) and educating our children so that this nation can be strong in the right ways.
I am not at all saying that only Republicans are business successes. I was just drawing a broad generalisation about the differences of attitude across the political divide, and things are far from simple. There is a distinction between US Republicanism as a principled movement and the behaviour of the Republican Party. Like in other democracies, the two main US parties have their core support in organised capital and labour respectively, and their success depends on their ability to build a majority support reaching out to form social alliances from their core vote. In principle, I think it is better that the party of capital form government, because they should be able to generate higher levels of economic growth with the good result of lower taxes producing higher revenues. However, the principle is a long way from the practice. In the current circumstance if I was an American I would vote for Obama, because the capital-based party (the Republicans) has lost the plot, it is infected with idiotic forms of cultural conservatism, they don't have a clue about climate change, and Obama is way smarter and more credible than McCain. Even so, there are some great values within the Republican Party, and we can expect an Obamaslide to have various leftists cock-a-hoop pushing redistributive policies which seem just and compassionate but have negative longer term consequences. In talking about the minimum wage, it is worth remembering that half the people in the world
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Chris: Who said anyone should "share" what they earn with anyone other than their family or friends?

Chris' reasoning, I believe, stems from a basic premise of human nature: that people flourish best when operating from a place of rational self-interest, accompanied by a morality of self-reliance, independent initiative, and personal responsibility...conversely, relying upon the largesse of another, being dependent upon the assistance of others, expecting that others be responsible for one's survival and care: is irresponsible and an impediment to liberty. Each one should take care of themselves first, then assistance should extend to others most able to protect and help oneself, to those who share common values and play by the same rules, and outward with assistance diminishing in relation to the amount of support offered in return. In essence, caring for others is seen as an investment: where I offer my services, I expect a return that matches or exceeds my input. If all of us follow these rules, then a greater number of us will flourish...steadily increasing our services as our investments return greater and greater profits and rewards.

I don't take issue with Chris working to make his world in this image (and forgive the crude reduction Chris- but I think I'm on the right track). I don't agree with the premise, so I can't support the conclusions that follow. What I do take issue with, is why Palin or other Republicans who identify as Christians could adopt such a perspective.
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Robert Tulip wrote: In the current circumstance if I was an American I would vote for Obama, because the capital-based party (the Republicans) has lost the plot, it is infected with idiotic forms of cultural conservatism, they don't have a clue about climate change, and Obama is way smarter and more credible than McCain. Even so, there are some great values within the Republican Party, and we can expect an Obamaslide to have various leftists cock-a-hoop pushing redistributive policies which seem just and compassionate but have negative longer term consequences. In talking about the minimum wage, it is worth remembering that half the people in the world – three billion people – live on less than three dollars a day. I don't see why the relatively small number of poor people in the USA are so much more deserving than the billions of people who are trying to get ahead through free markets.
We are not more deserving...that was oneo f my points. We are spoiled rotten in this country. But, within our economic system, you have to earn a certain wage in order to survive within that system. It is indeed relative. I for one think we as a nation and a world would benefit from a more simple way of life.

I also agree with you that there is indeed good things in the Republican value system...which is why I am Independent. The reason the US was so effective and successful was because we found the balance between what the people want/need. For the past 8 years and more, the Republicans have been trying to convince the nation and world that the Democratic ideals were passe.

The mix of ideologies and the mix of a capitalist method and 'socialist' type, not strict socialist mind you, methods have found a good balance to help the nation as a whole succeed. There is room for some programs that aim to help those who were not born into, or had opportunities to make a success for themselves. It is not all hard work that helps one get ahead. What family you are born into helps and the circumstances one finds themselves in also contribute. Some people can climb out of a certain set of circumstances but it is not easy and not assured. There is an imbalance of opportunity in this county. Just look at the race issue and even the issue of relious v. atheists. If one does not kowtow to the established order, they find themselves against a wall. Those that benefit from the system should contribute to help keep it going. I also see nothing wrong wiith those who benefit most contributing more, because without the those who toil, they would not have what they have. The ultra successful do not function in a vacuum.

The Obama tax plan impacts those making over $250,000. If one made an extra $100,000 over $250,000, they would pay just $3000 more in taxes or so (I did the math a while ago an do not remember the exact number. If this were me, and I am not even close, I would have no problem giving back $3000 to make $97,000. Joe the plumber is a joke. It is insulting and appeals only to those who do not think or refuse to pay attention.

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I think this is the tragedy of America that no one says you should share other than on a strictly voluntary basis.
How is this a tragedy? Americans give more than any other people on this planet and they do it voluntarily. I think it's more a tragedy that other nations don't reach into their pockets out of their free will and need government coercion. Being forced to give means less than giving out of the goodness of your heart.
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Americans give more than any other people on this planet and they do it voluntarily.
I believe you, I've tried to look up figures but couldn't find anything clear.
America has 300 million inhabitants (or more) and the biggest GNP in the world. It's only natural that they should be the biggest giver.
I think it's more a tragedy that other nations don't reach into their pockets out of their free will and need government coercion. Being forced to give means less than giving out of the goodness of your heart
This is from the point of view of the person who gives: the giver in this case has more merit. However, this is of no interest to the person from the same country who is homelesss or is denied healthcare. What matters to him is whether he gets help, not what the motivation of the individual giver is.

As for government coercion... I'm a pragmatic person, and I think it works. I give to a few charities, for similar amounts as many people in my income bracket in France give I think. I could give more, and I don't know why I don't. Perhaps because it would become a sacrifice. Government coercion takes care of people like me by forcing them to do more, and it takes care of the millions of selfish people who would never do anything at all.
The people who are truly personally generous will always find ways of getting more involved. These things are not antithetical, they are complementary.
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Ophelia

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Quote:
Americans give more than any other people on this planet and they do it voluntarily.

I was going to take this on faith, but I've just heard from a reliable source on TV that, in proportion to their GNP, the US give five times less to developing countries than European countries do.
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Actually, I have heard that, too, but was waiting to retrieve the source before saying so. What I heard is that Ireland gives the most ( I don't recall if that was proportional to income or GNP or what) and that the claims of U.S. aid being the highest are based on the so-called foreign aid that is more like high-interest loans or aid that comes with strings attached to it and is a means of control and profit when it's paid back rather than a real gift. All this is nothing, though, until I dig out my source again....
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GentleReader9

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Sorry about all this double-posting. I'm scattered today. I was wrong about Ireland (I have no idea where I got that...) but I now have some sites with some of the statistics about how much countries give in relation to their GNP and so forth. Bear in mind that most of this aid is that kind with strings attached, more like investing for eventual profit than charity. We should really read a history of the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund here. It was an eye-opener for me when I read about it a couple of years ago.

http://www.globalissues.org/article/35/ ... assistance
"Where can I find a man who has forgotten the words so that I can talk with him?"
-- Chuang-Tzu (c. 200 B.C.E.)
as quoted by Robert A. Burton
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