I am on the same line as Bleach on this. I am going to die eventually anyways. I do not want to live past 60 probably, I understand that many live long fulfilling lives after that, but hey, I would rather not. I will die probably knowing I chose my own way. A way riddled with agony but...

Jlane, we are definitely in agreement. This may seem like madness to those who wish to live long and healthy lives, but I would like to explain one of the reasons I feel the way I do about how to live and why I don't want to live too long.

The women in my family seem to live for an extraordinarily long time, and have proven to be bitter, cynical, sarcastic and mean, and so if that is what I have to look forward to, I'd rather die sooner than later. No offense to anyone who is older or wants to live to be as old as possible, I just don't see it being a meaningful life, for me, past a certain point. My great-grandmother on my mother's side was 98 when she died in 2002, and was still asking my mother, who was visiting from out of state to be with her while she was sick, why she would eat rice pudding because it could maker her gain weight, and this woman was on her freaking death bed, for crying out loud, and all she could think about was criticizing others. My dad's mother is 95 and is just now going to live in a nursing home, leaving my aunt and uncle's where she'd been living for some time since she had to leave her own apartment in Florida, and she can't see the good in anything and still holds grudges about things that happened over 50 years ago. She drove my aunt crazy with her demands, got kicked out of every daytime senior care she was placed in, and scared away almost every caregiver who came in to help her prepare meals and get around when my aunt couldn't be there. She once actually complained that a caregiver was poisoning her food, and another she fired because the girl was black. Both of these women outlived their husbands and have such venom in their speech that I lived in fear of them for many, many years, and once my great-grandmother died, my grandmother has seemed more relaxed than I've ever seen her in my entire life, and I don't mean to say she doesn't miss her mother or didn't care for her, but she can finally live free of the criticisms and cynicism my great-grandmother lived with and projected onto everyone around her. I loved my great-grandmother and do sometimes miss her, and definitely admire her strength because she raised her children pretty much on her own and worked very, very hard all of her life, but I certainly don't want to be like her and make everyone else as miserable as I most certainly would be at her age.

Since I don't plan to have children, if their fate is what I have to look forward to, then I'd rather die somewhat young before seeing everyone of my generation and friend group die first and live on anyway, bitter, mean, and miserable. So, I will now have another cigarette, and if I had a shot of bourbon sitting in front of me, I would raise it in a toast to your healths and my vices. L'chaim!

The problem with trying to kill yourself with cigarettes is that you might not kill yourself. You might just live a long time on oxygen. Struggling for every breath when you refuse oxygen so you can die quicker is torture. And 60 once seemed very old to me, but the closer I get to it, the younger it seems. Most of us feel one way about things when we are young, and then as we get older, our feelings change. You might change your mind about an early death as you age, so why not try to live a healthy life now, and then, if you want to off yourself later, you can always do it in much easier and less painful ways. At least, if you decide at age 59 that life is worth living, you won't be tied to an oxygen tank.

I understand how hard it is to quit smoking, and if you enjoy it and can't quit, well, fine. Bleachededen, you seem to have a lot of difficult things in your life, so if smoking calms you down, so be it. But to be so flippant about the possibility of dying a horrible death at a young age seems misguided and a little immature.

I don't think I'm going to discuss this any further, because I seem to be offending others with choices that affect only me, so instead of continuing to share them here, I'll just stay silent, because I can't be understood without explaining my entire life history, and I won't do that, so what I say will not be understood fully and apparently seems misguided and immature.

I will say that I am not intentionally trying to kill myself with smoking, just that I am not going to make apologies for doing it. We all have bad habits, some worse than others, and I'm not judging anyone who doesn't smoke, so it makes no sense to me to judge me because I do, especially when you'll never even be in the same room with me, so it's really not an issue. But, I suppose I asked for this when I started this thread. But anyway, I've made my case for why I smoke (because I want to and don't feel compelled to quit just yet), and for why I don't necessarily want to live a long life, which isn't really up to me, anyway, so I think I've said enough. I will probably still reply here, but I think I'll leave my personal experiences out of it, at least for the time being.

I don't really think sarcasm is genetic. You can be bitter, or you can just push through it with a good attitude

The thing is though, it doesn't just affect you. It affects your family, friends, relationships etc. I think it's a bit selfish, but you know... whatever floats your particular boat.

wilde wrote:I don't really think sarcasm is genetic. You can be bitter, or you can just push through it with a good attitude

The thing is though, it doesn't just affect you. It affects your family, friends, relationships etc. I think it's a bit selfish, but you know... whatever floats your particular boat.

My boyfriend, my mother, and most of my friends smoke, so I don't think any of them are looking at me in the light you are describing.

But you see my point, right? You're taking away a loved one from somebody, and who's going to pay for any hospital bills?

In debates and stuff (not sure what this is. discussion? I wouldn't call it an argument since neither one of us is angry. ), I speak in general terms, not really about any specific situation.

Well, as I originally said, I didn't intend for this to be an argument about the pros and cons of smoking, I was just honestly curious to see who here did or didn't, but I said that the thread should go where it goes, and so here we are.

I'm not arguing that smoking is a good thing and that I am in favor of doing things that will eventually kill you, all I am saying is that I smoke, and don't intend to quit at the present moment, and that everyone else can do what is right by them. I'm not saying everyone should start smoking and I'm certainly glad that, as annoying as the new batch of youngsters are to someone my age, most of them have not felt the need to smoke as part of their rebellion. I'm ok with them thinking that my habit is gross and bad for me, because it most certainly is, and I think it's wonderful that they stay away from it. But I will defend myself against personal attacks on my lifestyle choices, because I'm not presuming to do that to anyone else, and would like the same respect in return. That is all.

I think you are right bleachededen that life can through some hard kicks. Here are a couple:

1) Time is relative. Not in the way Einstein described it, but it speeds up. It goes faster and faster as we age, and by 60 or so is just whizzing by. If you don’t believe me, just ask someone around that age, and see what they say. The problem here is that the remote point in the future were you will pack it in will suddenly be upon you, in the same fashion as a car on a freeway that didn’t look like it was going that fast in your rearview mirror suddenly roars past, in a startling manner.

2) We don’t really age. Oh, sure, our bodies deteriorate, we look different, but inside we are still young. Some will try to learn a few things along the way, and then might seem a little more articulate or knowledgeable in some ways. Others will not bother, and will then still be fighting the fights of youth at an unseemly age. Perhaps you have encountered this. Many arrive at old age imagining themselves as being 30 or so, and are shocked when they look in the mirror. Interests and goals may have changed somewhat, but many, most that I know, hope for more. Not just more in order to tick off days on a calendar, but to explore new horizons. At that point, a diagnosis of cancer or heart disease is not an abstraction, but a heartbreak.

You are correct, Etudiant. I am 57, and in the last ten years, I have had more "firsts" than in all the 47 years before that. I am old enough to appreciate things, as the time whizzes faster by, in ways I never could when I thought I had all the time in the world. And I am braver now, also, and so are most of my friends. (The reason for all the firsts, I guess). I don't feel ready to go into the great beyond quite yet, but when I was 25, I couldn't imagine myself with a few extra pounds, eye wrinkles and greying hair.

So, it wasn't the fact of smoking that bothered me, it was the attitude that all the good times in life get used up when you are young, so why get old? I'm still having good times, and hope I will have a few more years of them before I'm through.