Yesterday I called my older sister who was having a discussion group meeting at her home at the time. She said the group was talking about the subjugation of women and they determined that the reason for this is Religion!
I said, well you know the cure for that don't you . . . she did not, so I said "no religion"

I'm posting this topic here in Atheism and free thought because the subjugation of women is so blatantly ridiculous and unproductive and of course unfair that it could not exist without religion.

Just now on t.v. there is a program called "Sister wives" it is about a mormon family consisting of one husband, four wives, a slew of kids. Each of these wives have 1/4 of a husband. He has no fixed home of his own. The wives blame themselves for their own "insecurities, jealousies, insufficiencies" if they feel anything negative about the situation. The husband considers a wife being with another man "obscene" and says love should be multiplied, not divided. Obviously all these people consider this acceptable and preferable in the eyes of their faith.

The thing is that now they are going to present themselves as "oppressed" by society. This was said by the latest bride who came to the plural marriage with 3 children. She is tired of the "oppression " her children have to bear although they have been part of the family only a matter of months.

Did any of you see the photograph in the paper recently (think it may have been in Egypt or maybe Saudia Arabia, I can't remember) of a woman in full burga regalia holding a sign saying "democracy is oppression"?

Women are at least half the problem in their own subjugation.

Religion is definitely a big problem, and perhaps the biggest in modern times. However, I don't think that's solely it. There are biological differences, evolutionary desires/roles that I think affect it too. Unpoisoned with religion, I can't say there would be no oppression. But it's a step in the right direction. And nature is less relevant now than 50 years ago, so if there were anything adding to the problem inherent in our genes, we'd be more capable of overcoming it now.

lady of shallot wrote:Yesterday I called my older sister who was having a discussion group meeting at her home at the time. She said the group was talking about the subjugation of women and they determined that the reason for this is Religion!
I said, well you know the cure for that don't you . . . she did not, so I said "no religion"

I'm posting this topic here in Atheism and free thought because the subjugation of women is so blatantly ridiculous and unproductive and of course unfair that it could not exist without religion.

If you knew me from these pages, you would know that what I am about to say is in no way a defense of religion and in now way to I like to even SEEM like I am defending religion.

The subjugation of women may be exacerbated by religion and justified by it, but in no way is religion responsible for this.

Religion is a system of justification for human nature. What religion says is good is what we feel deep down is good, moral. What we think is bad is cast in the shadow of evil by religion. Religion is the hindsight in our morality...not the pro-active vision.

It is human nature, especially in our early formation as a societal species, that has subjugated women. Men were by nature the stronger of the sexes physically. They were able to exert control over women. As our society has progressed, and the need for physical prowess has waned, so too has the dominance of the male.

Yes, there is still an inequality among the sexes, but we see it being watered down as the years go on....in SPITE of the religious fervor we see nowadays.

I am old enough that I in my own person have seen a great relaxing in the rigidity of the roles between men and woman.

When I was 5 my mother took me to a clinic to be vaccinated before I started kindergarten. The person giving me the vaccination was a woman doctor. This so confused my little brain that on the way home I asked my mother if this meant that "ladies could marry ladies"

I have worked in an office where the men could smoke and the women could not. For airlines where women could be stewardesses but never pilots, or in some cases hold no supervisory position.

20 years ago my friend was denied having property in her name in a Florida condo because she was married. A letter from the law firm she worked for cleared that up. I remember going to a bank with my husband to enquire about a mortgage loan when we wanted to buy our first house. My husband is not at all good with figures and such and yet the banker we spoke to basically refused to let me participate in the discussion, directing all his comments to my husband.

I remember my mother complaining when she went to a grandson's graduation from law school because there were women in his class and "how could they take care of their children if they were going to be lawyers?" O.K. to clerk in a store.

However there is still much subjugation of women and it is directly tied to religion. Think of polygamy among Mormons and in all of Islam.

I know a woman who was born and brought up in Saudi Arabia (her American father was employed there) several years ago she visited there so her husband and two boys could see her "homeland" When they wanted to dine out they could only do so if their table was screened from the rest of the restaurant.

Don't you think that giving credence to religion as being a constant threat to the independence and complete equality of women socially and professionally takes away from the damaging effects of popular media.

I was raised in a Catholic household and attended church the majority of my life and have never felt that my faith was in anyway holding me back from achieving or aiming for goals that may be considered typically male, however I constantly see images on television and magazines that make me ashamed to be part of the fairer gender. If anything my faith in part is what sustains me when some reality T.V twit talks about the importance of indoor tanning to her healthy lifestyle.

This is not to say that I undermine the importance that misguided faith can play when perpetuated by powerful people intent on control to further gain wealth and dominance for their faction whatever that may be. I do find that I am more inclined to be angry with the overly saturated stereotype that middle eastern societies are in a constant battle to do away with women s rights. I have several friends some follow Islam others are Assyrian, some wear burqa's and many have gone back to their homelands but none feel inadequate compared with their male counterparts, conversely they feel that overcoming these stereotypes is what gives them the drive to succeed in their chosen professions.

I do wholeheartedly agree that women play a part ( a huge part) in their own subjugation, but in today's society religion actually plays only a supporting role.

lady of shallot wrote: However there is still much subjugation of women and it is directly tied to religion. Think of polygamy among Mormons and in all of Islam.

Yes, but again, I think this is in HUMAN NATURE and religion is one of many covers. Both are antiquated modes of thought...so...

"Religion is definitely a big problem, and perhaps the biggest in modern times."
Posting an opinion as if it were fact is quite irritating. I appreciate those on this thread who clearly label their opinions as opinions and use words like "may" or "possibly".