I was wondering if anyone reads this series. I read up to the third book, the title escapes me now, and liked it alright. Then it took like eighty years for Martin to release the next book, A Feast for Crows. Because of my addled memory, I have very few clear memories of the outcomes of the different story lines. I tried to reskim the first three books and have been diverted on each attempt. I think it's because I've heard that FfC isn't that good. So I'm wondering, if anyone reads the series, if you've read FfC and if you think it's worth the effort of rereading the whole damn series in order to read FfC.

Last, and this is a spoiler from book three, Catelyn's quasi-resurrection was Martin jumping the shark to me. I think this perception might be informing my hesitation in reading the fourth book. Is that fair or is it better explained/utilized in FfC than I am imagining it could possibly be?

I absolutely love this series, and really hope that the TV show works out.

A Feast for Crows isn't as good as the other installments, but it furthers the plot. There are some nice moments, but it's all setup.

Catelyn's quasi-resurrection, was in keeping with Martin's philosophy regarding magic. We don't see too much more of Catelyn, but the way her resurrection works is explained by another character.

AFFC only feels like half a book. Many of the major characters do not appear at all. Instead, we focus on Sansa, Cersei, Sam, Brienne, the Greyjoys (less Theon) and the Martells. You can see that the pieces are being moved into position, but it's easy to understand why the events of the book were originally intended as a prologue. There's no Red Wedding.

If I were you, I'd wait for the release of A Dance with Dragons, reread the first three and then buy Dance and Feast together. Having kept track of the progress of this series for the last few years, I can say that it is safe to say that this isn't going to turn into a Wheel of Time. Martin has a clear idea where he is going with this, but his original plan was to have a trilogy with the Red Wedding marking the end of the first book! It is because of the detailed political games being played by many of the characters that he's getting stuck in the mud.

Finally, just a quick question for you: Did you pick up on the significance of the phrase "Her bloody bed" or not? I kicked myself for missing that the first time I read A Game of Thones. It tends to throw a new light on much of what happens in the series.

Niall, thanks for the reply.

My first thought when I heard that Robert Jordan had died was, "thank god I never picked up that series." Sad, but true. To be honest I was on attempt number three at rereading Martin's series when I heard of Jordan's demise. I haven't read a page since. I know Martin has a definite story to finish, so that's not really my concern. Though the man could get hit by a truck tomorrow.

I'm more concerned that the story has gotten a bit out of control. The fact that he needed to reformat his original intentions makes me wonder if it's started to unwind. And, as I said, Catelyn's death makes me particularly wary. I think I might take you up on your suggestion of waiting for DofD. And then you can tell me after reading that one, if it's worth re-reading the whole damn thing again. Curse my muddled memory.

As for the "bloody bed," if I was able to remember such particulars I wouldn't be in this bloody mess. I would just polish off FfC without worrying about the 1000-1500 pages that preceded it. But all joking aside, I really don't remember the particular of that phrase, or whose bloody bed we're talking about. But I'm assuming, if we're talking about a woman, it's alluding to someone's birth mayhaps.

Yup, well, that is the way I interpreted it. I'll avoid the spoilers but it would seem that one character is unaware of their parentage, as is every other person around them. Once understood, the title of the series makes a lot of sense.

Regarding whether it is unwinding, the second book was originally supposed to begin with Dany's invasion of Westeros. I think that once Martin reaches that point, normal service will resume, and Dance with Dragons should bring us to that point. Remember, Martin lost control of the series shortly after starting the book, but the first three books still worked, in fact I'd say they benefited from it. If you don't have the time to re-read books 1-3, then my advice would be to read the wikis before starting on Feast or Dance.

As for Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time . it's said the final installment of the series was nearly finished when he died, but I think the series has far more fundamental problems than a dead author. I read the first book, which was rather fun, but it went downhill from their. It becomes repetitive, the characters act like idiots and don't really develop, Jordan lacks any subtlety, especially when it comes to the imagery, his technique for describing fights is cheap and we're introduced to increasingly ludicrously tall characters. And as for the pace.... Still, I've read the entire series so far and I'll finish it off. Nothing bugs me like not knowing how a series ends.

Niall wrote:Yup, well, that is the way I interpreted it. I'll avoid the spoilers

You mean spoilers in Feast for Crows, or in earlier books? Also, because I don't remember the quote, whose bed are we talking about here? And who was the focus of the chapter?

Regarding whether it is unwinding, the second book was originally supposed to begin with Dany's invasion of Westeros.

Wow, I never knew this. I'm obviously not an avid fan of the books and so don't know much of anything that happened behind the scenes. The series was pushed onto me by a friend who is a huge fan. I kept insisting that I refuse to read incomplete series, but he assured me the series would be finished. Being the dorky fan he is, he has somewhat fan-friended Martin who comes to this area sometimes, and was, after a night of drinking, knighted by Martin. Anyway, he assures me that Martin has a clear direction for his story.

If you don't have the time to re-read books 1-3, then my advice would be to read the wikis before starting on Feast or Dance.

Niall, great suggestion on both counts. I think that's exactly what I'll do; wait for Dance to come out, read the prior three wikis and then read Feast and Dance together.

As for Wheel of Time, I've heard his wife is completing what was left unfinished, have you heard the same?

You mean spoilers in Feast for Crows, or in earlier books? Also, because I don't remember the quote, whose bed are we talking about here? And who was the focus of the chapter?

I'm referring to one of Ned's chapters in A Game of Thrones. He recalls his battle with the Kingsguard - the elite knights whose duty is to protect the royal family - who were keeping his sister Lyanna in a tower. The line seems like a throw away so don't be surprised if you didn't notice it first time around. I'll not say anymore for fear of depriving you of the Oh Shit moment I had when everything clicked into place.

I'll warn you though that my interpretation of this line and other situations in the book has not been explicitly confirmed just yet. It just happens that the theory supported by this interpretation explains so much of what happens in the series.

As for Wheel of Time, I've heard his wife is completing what was left unfinished, have you heard the same?

Yup. Well apparently it is to be a joint effort between his wife and his editor. It's sad that he died without getting to finish his magnum opus, but most of us never get to start.

Yeah, I know I'm awful Niall, but I have absolutely no recollection of that scene. As for Lyanna, I've always wondered if Jon was her son. That would explain away a guy as stonily honorable as Ned having an affair, which is really hardly believable. And I thought I had contrived a reason why Ned would keep Jon's true parentage a secret. But I can't remember that now either.

That's it. It starts to become very obvious. Jon appears to be Rhaegar and Lyanna's son. Turns out Rhaegar isn't the monster some thought he was. Ned kept this secret - it was the promise he's always on about. If he had let Robert know, he would have killed Jon. It's one of the main reasons he has avoided Robert for years.

Of those in Westeros, Jon has the best claim on the throne. The Kingsguard only guard the royal family, which suggests Jon may not even be Rhaegar's bastard, but a true blue Targ. Only 2/3 people know about it in Westeros. The Crannog-man whose name escapes me(maybe his children who are travelling with Bran and Hudor), Benjen (Coldhands?) Stark, Vareys (Ned tells him something mysterious before he dies) and possibly Maester Aemon.

It's weird, Jon can't seem to avoid being offered thrones! He was made Robb's heir, Stannis offers him the North, he's the legitimate King of all Westeros... And he would be free to take any throne he liked, so long as he can get away from that Wall. But the only way that would happen would be if it fell, and we all know the wall has never fallen... The series is building to his encounter with his Aunt Dany. It seems that the Dragon has another head, so apparently, there's another Targ out there somewhere. It seems that Gregor Clegane didn't kill all of the Targ kids after all, if you pay special attention to his lines during the duel with the Sand snake, this becomes clear.

Oh right, Rhaegar, I forgot about him. Yeah, that's where I thought Jon was going, though it seems obvious so early on, I wonder if there's another twist. For a bastard, Jon is being offered an inordinate amount of thrones. Though that story may have been foreshadowed with Mormont's story (is his name Mormont?). You know the guy on the wall who had already taken the black and so had passed to his brother his inheritance rights. I don't know that I see Jon leaving the wall without some fundamental change to what the wall means to the realm (i.e. no longer necessary to protect from the wildlings, and the Others).

That's funny you wrote "Aunt Dany," the friend who had suggested the series to me calls her "Aunty Dany." Perhaps there may be some reunion at the wall or north of it, with Dany, Jon and Benjen (that's the name of the lost ranger right?). Though my friend is skeptical that Martin is looking to tie up all these loose ends in the way his readers are searching for. Martin has, in essence, created his own real world; loose ends don't always get fully resolved in real worlds, as they tend to in fiction.

That's funny you wrote "Aunt Dany," the friend who had suggested the series to me calls her "Aunty Dany."

You'd be shocked how many people make it throw the first three books without considering Jon's parentage. It has been suggested that there is another twist to come in Jon's secret origin story, and some of the prophecies have spoken of a false dragon, so you may be right.

Mormont is the old Lord Commander of the Night Watch alright who dies before Jon becomes Lord Commander. His son Jorah used to be Dany's guardian. I don't remember anything about him having a brother... You're not thinking of Sam (Pig) Jon's Friend? He took the black because his father wanted his brother to be his heir. As for Jon leaving the wall, I think ethat we'll find that the wall falls. That's what they tend to do in books like these.

And I just remembered, Martin has released a couple of stories set about 100 years or so before AGOT. You might want to check them out. They're published in the first two volumes of the Legends anthology, but they turn up elsewhere. And if you enjoyed Martin's work here, I recommend Fevre Dream, a vampire tale set on a steamboat. He wrote it long before AGOT but it combines a nice amount of realism with some fantasy and horror.