• In total there are 2 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 2 guests (based on users active over the past 60 minutes)
    Most users ever online was 871 on Fri Apr 19, 2024 12:00 am

British Teacher guilty for naming Teddy Bear "Muhammad&

A forum dedicated to friendly and civil conversations about domestic and global politics, history, and present-day events.
Forum rules
Do not promote books in this forum. Instead, promote your books in either Authors: Tell us about your FICTION book! or Authors: Tell us about your NON-FICTION book!.

All other Community Rules apply in this and all other forums.
User avatar
Mr. P

1F - BRONZE CONTRIBUTOR
Has Plan to Save Books During Fire
Posts: 3826
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:16 am
20
Location: NJ
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 137 times
Gender:
United States of America

British Teacher guilty for naming Teddy Bear "Muhammad&

Unread post

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,5143,695231811,00.html
KHARTOUM, Sudan - A British teacher in Sudan was convicted Thursday of the less-serious charge of insulting Islam for letting her pupils name a teddy bear "Muhammad," and was sentenced to 15 days in prison and deportation to Britain, one of her lawyers said.
Gillian Gibbons could have received 40 lashes and six months in prison in the case if found guilty of the more serious charge of inciting religious hatred and given the maximum penalty.

Inciting religious hatred. 40 Lashes. How ridiculous. Over a Delusion.

I am going to name my sex doll Muhammad H. Jesus.


Mr. P.
When you refuse to learn, you become a disease.
User avatar
Mr. P

1F - BRONZE CONTRIBUTOR
Has Plan to Save Books During Fire
Posts: 3826
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:16 am
20
Location: NJ
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 137 times
Gender:
United States of America

Update:Calls in Sudan for execution of Briton

Unread post

So now they want this teacher executed? And SHE is spreading religious hatred. I see it as religious hatred and the inherent intolerance of religion being the bully here.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071130/ap_ ... sh_teacher

KHARTOUM, Sudan - Thousands of Sudanese, many armed with clubs and knives, rallied Friday in a central square and demanded the execution of a British teacher convicted of insulting Islam for allowing her students to name a teddy bear "Muhammad."

In response to the demonstration, teacher Gillian Gibbons was moved from the women's prison near Khartoum to a secret location for her safety, her lawyer said.

The protesters streamed out of mosques after Friday sermons, as pickup trucks with loudspeakers blared messages against Gibbons, who was sentenced Thursday to 15 days in prison and deportation. She avoided the more serious punishment of 40 lashes.


Mr. P.
When you refuse to learn, you become a disease.
User avatar
Constance963
Intern
Posts: 161
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:25 pm
16

Unread post

People are just nuts. You would THINK that religion would teach you love and tolerance.....

And how exactly does the punishment fit the crime here, if there is even a crime at all?
My wedding day! 08-08-08
MadArchitect

1E - BANNED
The Pope of Literature
Posts: 2553
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:24 am
19
Location: decentralized

Unread post

Constance963 wrote:You would THINK that religion would teach you love and tolerance.....
Religion might, but political institutions almost never do. And to talk about this incident as though it were simply about religion downplays the fact that she's being accused, tried and punished by a political body that probably has a lot more invested in maintaining a certain kind of status quo than it does in ensuring a particular religious ideal. I'd be willing to bet that if we looked more at the historical and social context (if, for instance, we read some books on the subject), we'd find that the political upheavals of the last 50-100 years have played a huge part in arranging the circumstances that led to this woman's imprisonment and deportation.
Niall001
Stupendously Brilliant
Posts: 706
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2003 4:00 am
20

Unread post

Niggardly.
User avatar
Mr. P

1F - BRONZE CONTRIBUTOR
Has Plan to Save Books During Fire
Posts: 3826
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:16 am
20
Location: NJ
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 137 times
Gender:
United States of America

Unread post

MadArchitect wrote: Religion might, but political institutions almost never do. And to talk about this incident as though it were simply about religion downplays the fact that she's being accused, tried and punished by a political body that probably has a lot more invested in maintaining a certain kind of status quo than it does in ensuring a particular religious ideal. I'd be willing to bet that if we looked more at the historical and social context (if, for instance, we read some books on the subject), we'd find that the political upheavals of the last 50-100 years have played a huge part in arranging the circumstances that led to this woman's imprisonment and deportation.
Wow Mad, you threw me with this response...it is not usually like you to try to give religion a pass in such matters.

It may be a governing body that has held up this law, but the law is steeped in the religion of the area and the extreme adherence to that religion. Someone is getting punished for naming a teddy bear. The reason is because many people believe in the myth of Muhammad and have raised that one name above any sense of human decency in situations like this. It is an arbitrary law based on make believe.

The people calling for her execution are NOT the governing body, but people of Sudan who believe in the BS that is Muhammad and their faith.

Please Mad, think about it. When the politics of a nation are so intertwined with religious ideals and beliefs, you cannot separate the two just because you feel religion is such a wonderful thing. This is all about religious belief gone haywire.

Mr. P.
When you refuse to learn, you become a disease.
User avatar
Constance963
Intern
Posts: 161
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:25 pm
16

Unread post

[quote="MadArchitect"][quote="Constance963"]You would THINK that religion would teach you love and tolerance.....[/quote]

Religion might, but political institutions almost never do. And to talk about this incident as though it were simply about religion downplays the fact that she's being accused, tried and punished by a political body that probably has a lot more invested in maintaining a certain kind of status quo than it does in ensuring a particular religious ideal. I'd be willing to bet that if we looked more at the historical and social context (if, for instance, we read some books on the subject), we'd find that the political upheavals of the last 50-100 years have played a huge part in arranging the circumstances that led to this woman's imprisonment and deportation.[/quote]

I was not trying to downplay anything. I was just making a comment about misterpessimistic's quote about people streaming out of mosques and going right from their religious services to screaming for someone's murder. It was simply ironic to me that you come right from prayer to wanting someone dead.
My wedding day! 08-08-08
MadArchitect

1E - BANNED
The Pope of Literature
Posts: 2553
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:24 am
19
Location: decentralized

Unread post

Constance963 wrote:I was not trying to downplay anything.
No, I didn't think you were. But I do think it's important to note that the action being taken here has serious political entanglements, and that might go some way towards explaining the macabre contrast between coming from prayer and going to denounce.
Mr. P wrote:It may be a governing body that has held up this law, but the law is steeped in the religion of the area and the extreme adherence to that religion.
What do you mean by "steeped"? It would be really easy to assume that the government demands religious uniformity because it's full of zealous believers, but again, I'd be willing to bet that a historical inquiry into the development of the government would reveal that, at some crucial historical juncture, a more liberal, secular system was rejected for political reasons. (And a likely bet for when that juncture occurred would be the post-WWI period, or even before, during the Anglo-Sudanese conflict, when imperial Britain was making a colonial state of the Sudan. If either of those is the case, the Sudan wouldn't be the first territory to have stifled a liberalizing impulse in order to consolidate local support against the encroachment of some external political body.) There have, after all, been very tolerant Islamic governments. Something distinguishes the tolerant Islamic nations from those that are not, and it doesn't seem to me to be anything in the religion itself.
The reason is because many people believe in the myth of Muhammad and have raised that one name above any sense of human decency in situations like this. It is an arbitrary law based on make believe.
Think whatever you want about the foundation of the religion, the law in question is not arbitrary. Someone benefits from it. It serves a particular function in that society, and that's what I mean when I say that there is a political motivation at work here. The government in question has a vested political interest in maintaining a state religion. Demanding uniformity probably serves to prevent critiques of the status quo, or something along those lines. And because they live in a context where religion is highly politicized, it's difficult to say in which spirit the protesters from your second article were acting.

If it were simply a matter of the members of a religious institution in an otherwise secular state calling for this woman's execution, I'd certainly have a different opinion on the matter. In that case, I'd be more than willing to cite it as an example of religion spontaneously going very wrong. But the moment a government starts legislating religious values, that complicates how you ought to interpret the facts, just as it would complicate your interpretation of a charitable organization when a known thief is made chief director.
When the politics of a nation are so intertwined with religious ideals and beliefs, you cannot separate the two just because you feel religion is such a wonderful thing. This is all about religious belief gone haywire.
You do see the contradiction in those two sentences, don't you?

I'm not saying that religion doesn't play a part here. But I doubt you'd be seeing this particular scenario if a political body wasn't involved. The fact that they've latched onto this particular instance would probably be telling if we knew more about the situation. Think about all of the time that our government and press have made a total non-issue into three weeks worth of coverage and scrutiny. Little hint here, it's usually when the administration doesn't want you to pay attention to some other, more important issue.

And the fact is, we probably wouldn't have heard this story at all if it didn't have a religious element to it. We're getting this story divorced from its larger context, so it's easy to see how you might take religion as its sole context. The American press loves to print stories about how backwards and totalitarian people are in the Middle East, and we know so little about the political situation in Sudan that the only explanation that immediately occurs to us is the one fact we think we know about it: they're fanatics. Seriously, tell me one thing you knew about Sudanese culture or politics that doesn't involve Islam.
User avatar
Mr. P

1F - BRONZE CONTRIBUTOR
Has Plan to Save Books During Fire
Posts: 3826
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:16 am
20
Location: NJ
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 137 times
Gender:
United States of America

Unread post

WOW! POOOOOR religion! I mean, whenever it looks like it is complicit, it turns out, all the time it seems, to be just a tool used by something or someone else. Sorry I ever doubted it.

Mr. P.
When you refuse to learn, you become a disease.
irishrose

1E - BANNED
Freshman
Posts: 214
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:34 pm
16

Unread post

Mad: Seriously, tell me one thing you knew about Sudanese culture or politics that doesn't involve Islam.

Is this a quiz? Does spelling count?

That a lot of the ongoing conflict in Sudan centers on political and economic issues. A large portion of the wealth of the nation is in the hands of the political minority
Post Reply

Return to “Current Events & History”