Robert Tulip wrote:ant wrote:Robert, Can you answer my Osiris question in a nutshell? What ancient source ,for example, indicates that Osiris was born on Dec 25 before 3 shepards?
Hi ant. No one has ever made that claim about Osiris to my knowledge. Jesus is seen as drawing from attributes of both Osiris and Horus. The Christmas motif for Horus is discussed by Plutarch, who says
Isis and Osiris LXV.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/plu/pte/pte04.htm
common and trivial stories ... identify the legends concerning these deities with the seasonable changes of the atmosphere, or with the growth, sowings, and ploughings of the grain; and who say that Osiris is then buried when the sown grain is hidden in the ground, and that he comes to life and shows himself again when there is a beginning of sprouting; ... and that
Harpocrates is born about the winter solstice... when they hear all this, people are satisfied and believe it.
Harpocrates is the Greek name for Horus, who Plutarch says is the subject of a "common and trivial story" about being born "about the winter solstice".
Re the three "shepards", I assume you mean the three kings, not the shepherds in the fields?
One interesting source on this from Egypt is this picture, showing three Gods greeting the sun God born on the winter solstice
Further detail on these questions is at
http://www.truthbeknown.com/chrisforbeszeitgeist.html
Thank you, Robert. Interesting post. I looked over wikki and read a bit more about Osiris and similar gods that died and rose - Attis, Adonis, Tammuz, Heracles, Eshmun, Baal...,etc.
Gods like these were essentially connected with vegetation and worshiped in fertility cults. When crops died in the winter, but came back to life in the spring, so too was the case for the gods associated with crops(correct?). They are worshiped as dying-rising gods.
Common to all mythicists is the belief that Jesus was a Jewish version of the pagan fertility deity, invented by jews as yet another dying-rising god. This was the beginning of "historicizing" Christ until stories were told about him that created an entirely new narrative - Jesus transmogrified into the suffering son of god who died for mankind's sins.
What is the hard evidence that indicates dying-rising gods like were views that were known in Palestine around the time of the New Testament?
What is the evidence which proves the people of Palestine
worshiped pagan gods who died and rose again?
The ancient near eastern gods were connected with seasonal cycles that occurred yearly. Christ's death and resurrection in comparison was a onetime event. What is the reason given by mythicists for this difference? Why are mythicists comfortable with stretching the comparison to create a parallel? Also, Christ's death was seen as an atonement for sins. NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING of a sort occurs in ancient near eastern sources. Are mythicists comfortable with this stark contrast? Does it fit neatly into their hypothesis, or is it something that is being explained away to fit their data?
Christ's early teachings were not simply about his body being risen from the dead. It was that he experienced a resurrection - which is not the same thing. That ties in more with the jewish notion of resurrection as it relates to apocalypticism. That is a more plausible explanation for Christ's death and resurrection narrative than what mythicists claim. It is the more elegant explanation, based on the evidence. Why lean toward a more convoluted explanation?