What is the meaning of life?

[TheImpatientAtheist]

Yes, Chimps are amazing and even use sign language. But not to the same extent as homo sapiens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55put3MLZcw

The thing is, we try to communicate 'ideas' and 'abstract' notions. Our 'egos' get in the way of this to a great extent.

We have such a Tower of Babel here on the Internet. Such an opportunity to communicate.....but there is so much, ' I am right' 'You are Wrong' attitude. I think we need a little more 'Hands across the Ocean'.

The Ocean being the sum total of human experience.

I agree, there needs to be more cooperation between members of the human species. Step 1 is recognizing the problem. Step 2 is fixing it.

Regarding the 'too much of the i am right, you are wrong' attitude, I agree that is largely prevalent, not just on the internet, but in much of human dialog. In some cases it is warranted. Facts are not relative. For instance, you claimed that other species do not kill for fun. I gave you an example of where they did, which if admitted, would tear down the edifice you had built in claiming that the perpetuation of the species could not be the meaning of life, because look at human behavior, etc. etc. Instead of conceding the point and moving forward, you concede that 'yes, chimps are amazing, but not as amazing as homo sapiens' in response to my evidence that we are not the lone species that possesses self-awareness, which was another blow to your theory. Who cares if they arent as amazing as homo sapiens? That wasnt in question.

I am probably by this point coming off as very arrogant and cocksure, but this is not my intention. I just find most human discussion hijacked by the inability to concede a point has been made. I have been wrong numerous times in my life about many things. And when I am shown I am wrong, my opinions change as well as my attitude. THIS is intellectual honesty, and I think THIS is the bridge to more cooperation between members of the human species.

[Penelope]

Dear Impatient Atheist, you wrote:

I am probably by this point coming off as very arrogant and cocksure, but this is not my intention. I just find most human discussion hijacked by the inability to concede a point has been made. I have been wrong numerous times in my life about many things. And when I am shown I am wrong, my opinions change as well as my attitude. THIS is intellectual honesty, and I think THIS is the bridge to more cooperation between members of the human species.

I don't think I have been arrogant, or cocksure, but a very erudite Australian member of this website once called me a 'Pompous Pom'. And I didn't know whether I was flattered or insulted. I can't help but say that you, in your provision of evidence, are right in letter but not in spirit. I don't think that Chimpanzees, or other animals have consciences. I may be wrong, I often am.

But, nodding in agreement doesn't lead to a good discussion. We have to be confrontational to some degree or the threads fizzle out.

We do influence one another in our debates, even though we usually don't admit it. That is the point of rhetoric isn't it?

Anyway, let's not be rhetorical, let's just be friends.

[TheImpatientAtheist]

No, I was saying that I might come off as arrogant or cocksure.

I never said nodding in agreement was the way to go. Certainly we do not need a centralized authority figure surrounded by "yes"-men. And debate is one of the pleasures of life, at least when it is fruitful. By fruitful I mean one side swaying the other of their position. I am of the position that about 95% of debates DO have a right/wrong side.

[Robert Tulip]

I don't want the human species to perpetuate at any cost. I want us to become a loftier race like the hymn we used to sing at school:- 'These things shall be A loftier race than ere the world hath known Shall rise With flame of freedom in their souls And light of knowledge in their eyes.

Hi Penelope, that is a beautiful hymn, although talk of 'race' tends to be regarded as slightly archaic and Edwardian.

In speaking of 'perpetuation at any cost', you make a great point which touches on the question of possible futures, whether our path is towards dystopia or utopia. It is an issue that is raised quite seriously in our current wise parable for fiction study, World War Zombie. If we don't consider 'the meaning of life' by having a strong focus on reality, then perpetuation will be at high cost of freedom.

In the dystopia of ignorance, plagues and wars will emerge which will produce tyrannical response, as in the zombie parable. But in the utopia of knowledge, if we find meaning in understanding, then we open up capacity to choose a future where freedom and knowledge can prosper, and problems can be addressed before they grow.

[Penelope]

Impatient Atheist wrote:

By fruitful I mean one side swaying the other of their position. I am of the position that about 95% of debates DO have a right/wrong side.

Well that depends on whether we are arguing about facts or opinion. Facts are facts and so there are definitely right and erroneous sides, but sometimes we can place a seed of doubt in a persons mind, which might take years to germinate but will eventually come to light. I mean by suggesting, gently, that the Bible might not be literally true, for instance.

If we are arguing about opinion, then we can perhaps sway another person a little towards our own. When Robert Tulip and I argue politics, this happens. I know Robert would never admit that any of my left-wing opinions affect his right-wing ones, but I can say that because of my respect for Robert as a person, I do at least consider his ideas. Largely, I think whether one is a Socialist or a Capitalist depends on ones character and not ones intellect. However, an understanding of why people believe in the way they do helps us to be less fearful of them. I think fear is at the bottom of a lot of conflict.

[Kevin]

What a wonderful question! I haven't looked at any of the replies. I don't want to be unduly influenced prior to my posting. Well then, I consider the goal of my life to consist of experiencing proper pleasure and avoiding all pain. It carries its own meaning, entirely rooted in the present, as anyone who has ever helped or hindered anything can attest to.

~ gah what is it really... 42 I think! ~

Anyway, you can't look for meaning because there is too much suffering and too little pleasure going around; OK unless you want to say there is a master plan put forth by some benevolent hand of god or science. Living in a river of blood and feces is apparently the point of it all. It's certainly behind it all! Dont worry. Be happy. As good as anything.

[Saffron]

~ gah what is it really... 42 I think! ~

42 for sure

[Penelope]

Life! Don't talk to me about life. "Five to one against and falling..." she said, "four to one against and falling...three to one...two...one...probability factor of one to ...

42 Once you do know what the question actually is, you'll know what the answer means...

[Penelope]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOzHoJYKMtM

Time Bandits - The Ending - Sir Ralph Richardson as the Supreme Being - says, 'Tidy up'.

[VMLM]

I think the best answer is also the easiest one to give: Each person gives his or her life meaning. And I'm not talking about believing in god here, or sitting down, reading a book about it and then thinking real hard.
Your actions, your ambitions, your fears and your beliefs within the context defined by your physical existence. I believe these things make up the meaning of your life.
So if you really want to figure out what the meaning of your life is, I think the best bet you have is to look around for those things that are most important to you, and then do something about them.

And really that's probably as good as it gets.
You can conjure up a whole lot of meaning for yourself, but in the end it's nothing more than your own illusions looking back at you through the colored perception of what your senses tell you is reality.
There's really only one way to bring meaning into your life, and that's to physically create it. And in my experience, if you don't give your life meaning, someone else will do it for you.

I know this is a bit off topic, and possibly utter crap. But this whole topic got me thinking. Isn't it amazing how none of our ideas actually exist? How they have no meaning beyond the applications we give them? Think about it. Physics doesn't actually exist, god doesn't actually exist, colors don't actually exist, they're all just so much hullabaloo. I'm so used to thinking of mathematics as a "thing" that exists, that it sort of blows my mind to realize that it doesn't.

It's kinda beautiful in a way, if you think about it... none of it is really there. And yet... how can't it be? The idea of god, reincarnation, the color yellow, the sine of the square root of pi... none of it exists anywhere except within those people to whom these concepts have meaning. The moment these people cease to exist, so will their ideas. And yet, while we continue to exist, and those ideas continue to exist through us, these.... dreams, these nonexistent figments of our imagination.. will continue to shape the world around us... how is that possible!?

Wouldn't that be an interesting meaning to life? Maybe we, life I mean, have the unique ability to bring into being things that don't exist, that should never have existed in the first place, things that aren't "natural".

But really what the hell.. Sometimes I wish that my upbringing, education, opportunities and actions had all come together in such a way that I might never have considered the question.