Part One, Chapters III–IV (3 - 4)

[Interbane]

Cold and calculating? It's a travesty to waste good machinery, especially precision machinery. Such unintentional degradation is an unfortunate part of this world, just like death. It's an injustice that's built into the fabric of the universe. Two steps forward, and one step back due to human nature. All the backbreaking effort we put into progress(including resources)... how much is lost due to human indifference?

[Robert Tulip]

libertarians (Rand) are a different breed - not conservative, liberal, or independent.

It depends whether this 'breed' is self-defined or other-defined. The mass media operate with a crude political spectrum where everyone serious is placed on a single line ranging from extreme right wing across to extreme left wing, with moderates in the middle who are willing to compromise and negotiate. The only ones off the line are kooks who everyone ignores.

Libertarians are represented in the US political sphere by Ron Paul and Paul Ryan, both of whom are generally regarded as extreme right wing conservatives due to their desire to slash into the size of government and focus on entrepreneurial values.

It is a bit like debates in religion where people say 'hey you can't define me by your simplistic categories'. People can and do define others on a simple spectrum, and Rand gets placed on the hard right. In the public mind libertarian is just a subset of conservative. Libertarianism is viewed as extreme because its ideological leaders such as Hayek and Mises have a rather uncompromising stance on the role of government.

Of course in some respects this simplistic labelling breaks down. We see that with Ryan who has distanced himself from Rand, despite his agreement with her, in order to shore up his social conservative base who don't like atheism and libertarianism.

[Tigerlily22]

As Dagny comes up in the company, I wonder why the other people don't oppose her. I wonder if it is because they don't bother due to her being female, or do they not want to oppose the boss's kid. She moves into the position she has and it seems this is what she always wanted, but she does not seem fulfilled in the position. Maybe this is why she does not want Nat to be her relative. Maybe she wishes the business hadn't been created. She does seem to respect him as a businessman however.

Eddie and Dagny seem the most committed to the company, but I wonder if Halley's character is supposed to forshadow Dagny's. Once the Rio Norte succeeds, does this mean that Dagny will bow out and leave the company and the public eye?

... good policy requires a balance between different approaches that have some contradictory impacts. Too much equality and the economy stagnates: too much inequality and the society explodes.

This is why I was concerned with the meeting about the Anti-dog-eat-dog rule. They constantly talk about the need to follow the majority and that sacrifice for the greater good is always the way to go. If the greater good is always what to look toward, then this will eventually lead towards communism. The "greater good" can never be perfect until everyone is equal. Without the competition of the railroads, there will never be a need to upgrade rail or better services as everyone will have access and the rail will always be "good enough". My other concern with lack of competition would be that Rearden Metal would be so good a product that no one else would ever sell anything again, but also that there would be no need for replacements, repairs, or improvements. Without this, it causes the demise of Reardon's company as well.

I know these may come across as three disjointed thoughts, but these are the major things that I noticed in the two sections and the points that I plan on keeping in mind in the reading of this book.

[lindad_amato]

Tigerlily22
Rand uses a strong sense of sarcasm to show her disdain for the altruists. Even the name of the Anti-dog-eat-dog rule shows how rediculous she thinks this type of approach is. I feel that she goes a bit overboard in showing how ignorant the group and Taggart are, but she was bent on making her point against Communism.

[Suzanne]

Good point Lindad.

I think we get a good look into the personality of Dagny when after the anti dog eat dog act she rushes to a railroad owner who has lost a great deal of his railroad. She is furious with him because he will not fight for what he owns. Although she admits she would take advantage of his loss, she wants him to fight. She says,

Nothing can make self-immolation proper. Nothing can give them the right to turn men into sacrificial animals. Nothing can make it moral to destroy the best. One can't be punished for being good

She continues:

One can't be penalized for ability. If that is right, then we'd better start slaughtering one another, because there isn't any right at all in the world. . . . If it's that kind of world, how can we live in it?

She tells this owner, Dan, that he has been punished for being good. So although Dagny is seen as this tough ass chick, she seems to have a great concern for morality and goodness. Terms such as self immolation and sacrificial animals make me think of religion and reminds me of something Robert said about Rand's view that some see capitalism as a religion. Dagny certainly is a capitalist, however, this dialoge shows her to be a moral one, where her brother and other railroad owners are not.

With this type of thinking by Dagny in her business makes her the odd ball. This type of thinking could really shake up the railroad world. Or, could make the Atlas shrug?

[LanDroid]

The book isn't all about business, there is some art thrown in. Dagny HATES contemporary music.

Above the door of a shop, the black hole of a radio loudspeaker was hurling sounds at the streets. They were the sounds of a symphony concert being given somewhere in the city. They were a long screech without shape, as of cloth and flesh being torn at random. They scattered with no melody, no harmony, no rhythm to hold them. If music was emotion and emotion came from thought, then this was the scream of chaos, of the irrational, of the helpless, of man's self-abdication. (p.51)

In contrast, it appears there is only one acceptable composer.

She turned to a phonograph and put on a record of the music of Richard Halley. It was his Fourth Concerto, the last work he had written. The crash of its opening chords swept the sights of the streets away from her mind. The Concerto was a great cry of rebellion. It was a "No" flung at some vast process of torture, a denial of suffering, a denial that held the agony of the struggle to break free. The sounds were like a voice saying: There is no necessity for pain—why, then, is the worst pain reserved for those who will not accept its necessity?—we who hold the love and the secret of joy, to what punishment have we been sentenced for it, and by whom? . . . The sounds of torture became defiance, the statement of agony became a hymn to a distant vision for whose sake anything was worth enduring, even this. It was the song of rebellion—and of a desperate quest.

[LanDroid]

We meet Dan Conway, head of the Phoenix-Durango railroad line.

The whole sphere of human endeavors, with one exception, left him blankly indifferent; he had no touch of that which people called culture. But he knew railroads. p.60

Good lord, ANOTHER robot? Dagny, Rearden, (Ellis Wyatt?), and now Dan Conway? What is with these emotional cripples? Is this required in order to be Heroic? I suspect this interior vacuum is required in order to accept the flinty detached philosophy we are uncovering...

[LanDroid]

Here's another little mystery that Rand has been hinting about from time to time. In a converstaion between Dagny and Hank:

"So I can't understand why Jim—" She stopped.
"—tries his best to harm my business? Because your brother Jim is a fool."
"He is. But it's more than that. There's something worse than stupidity about it." p.66

Hmmmm.... Hidden motives behind Jim Taggart's actions against Durango and Reardon which I s'pose will be revealed later...

[lindad_amato]

I suspect that Dagny is not referring to any conniving on Jim's part, he really is too stupid. I'm thinking that we're heading toward Rand's definition of morality on this one. Since she is an Atheist, her philosophy on what is moral, or not, is wrapped up with Capitalism and the ability of the individual to achieve his highest status through his business accomplishments.

[sal10e]

Hi TigerLily, Having just finished chapter IV I can't say for sure, but I expect James and his friends to try and put a stop to Hank Rearden and Rearden Metal based on their barroom conversation. After the Anti-Dog-Eat-Dog was passed Boyle and James Taggart's talk confirms that one has delivered to get rid of Taggart's competition now it is time for Taggart to get rid of Boyle's (ie Rearden).

A couple things stuck out to me in these chapters, one being that everyone was suddenly feeling tired and did not feel like doing anything. Dan Conway of Phoenix Durango's refusal to fight reminded me of the Taggart employee who quit for no apparent reason- both just giving up like they had reached all that they could handle and no longer felt like being movers.

I was also struck by the contrast in Dagny and Hank's conversation and the barroom conversation with James, Boyle and the two others. The latter being very evasive and trying to get things done in roundabout ways without every really saying or making decisions. Hank and Dagny say exactly what they need and are done negotiating in less than a paragraph. Rand seems to be indicating that all this extra effort the others are having to expend to figure out what others want them to do versus doing what they want to do or should is not just odd, but tiring and ludicrous. The second similar comparison is between Hank and Dagny when they see limitless opportunities based on Rearden Metal and the revitalization of the Taggart Transcontinental, as they believe they make their own opportunities. Contrast this with Hank and Betty Pope's conversation (and others in these chapters) where they keep stating they have nothing to do, nothing has any point or purpose and there are just essentially drifting with the currents waiting to be told what they should be doing.

The last item I wanted to point out was James is so upset about the nationalization of the railroad in Mexico and that government's actions, but he fails to see that they are doing a similar thing with the Anti-Dog-Eat-Dog rule.