Question for an Atheist

[geo]

right on geo!

as mutemath put it

"we all break the same"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfyChdikLo4

Oh man, those guys kick butt.

[Suzanne]

The example given above of relationship and health breakdown is a normal sort of existential human crisis. Believers can cope with such crises by faith, escaping into a fantasy realm, whereas atheists tend to face a bleak and stark material evidentiary reality. Atheists are more honest in this sort of situation.

Would this example you are speaking of be mine by any chance?

When my mother faced death it was a bleak and stark material evidentiary reality. There was no priest, no minister and no long talks about greeting dead loved ones. Death meant gone, ashes, ashes to be scattered in the ocean to be eaten, supporting the cycle of life. We both faced her death honestly. There was no escape into a fantasy realm. My residual desire to keep my mother in my life was an honest answer to Ants question, which accurately describes an existential crisis.

The existential is a concept associated with physical existence. Believers assume that the physical is a lesser reality than the spiritual, and that God will save them.

Although I do agree with you that believers in God celebrate life after death, something I cannot accept, I disagree with you about the meaning of the existential. The existential is a concept associated with a persons character, personality and core belief set. If a persons core belief set is to be atheistic towards the Christian God but chooses to abandon this belief set briefly, a existential crisis occurs.

[youkrst]

Would this example you are speaking of be mine by any chance?

i believe Robert was referring to the hypothetical example i gave Suzanne.

ie.

spouse leaves with money and terminal illness diagnosed.

[geo]

I'm actually curious about Ant's question. Does he suppose that atheists cannot have an existential crisis? I suppose the question belies some yet revealed snark comment about atheists.

[VMLM]

The short answer, ant, is everyone experiences existencial crises.

Existential crises have to do with how we define ourselves. Who am I? What is the meaning of my life? What is the meaning of life in general? What will I do now? How can I live without him/it? Am I doing what I should be doing with my life? etc...

This is just a small subset of the questions each of us may ask ourselves as we go through life. What changes the way we look at ourselves and our environment depends on each of us, but dealing with these fundamental changes to our view of the world and our selves is what causes existencial crises. In my opinion.
How each of us finds an answer to these questions is personal, and may or may not have anything to do with our chosen religion.

You also seem to imply that atheists are incapable of spirituality. This is untrue. I'm sure you've heard of Neil deGrasse Tyson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D05ej8u-gU
Let me also point you towards Nietzsche, who believed that there was nothing but the phenomenological flow. And that we are all nothing more than this. For him the justification of life was aesthetic. Only in creation and imagination, in art, can we find any meaning to save us from the uncaring truth of reality. In so asserting he made each and every one of us the sole craftsman of his or her own self, and all of us observers to the most beautiful show on earth.
Alan Watts on nothingness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssf7P-Sgcrk

Spirituality and existentialism aren't confined to religion Ant.

[Penelope]

VMLM wrote:

Existential crises have to do with how we define ourselves. Who am I? What is the meaning of my life? What is the meaning of life in general? What will I do now? How can I live without him/it? Am I doing what I should be doing with my life? etc...

Am I doing what I should be doing with my life?.....Just about sums me up. I didn't know that was an existentialist crisis!!

But,

The unexamined life is not worth living.
- Plato

It seems that I am in good company.

I am 67 years old.....and I am delighted to record that I am still learning. THE LIGHT COMES FROM ALL DIRECTIONS:-

[Penelope]

It is a shame that the aforementioned post - has an important bit, looking like an ancient manuscript......

It is ancient thinking.....the tea stained background should be ignored.

It is still a truism. A thing of joy......Ignore the frills.

[Time Bandit]

thought that they would keep saving money for their retirement but then their spouse took off with the money and at the same time they were diagnosed with a terminal illness and told they might be dead in 3 to 6 months

So what would be the crisis for the atheist here?

I'd say that if his wife took the money and ran off with another man, then too bad for the atheist. His wife simply found a better "hunter/gatherer" and a better mate for superior babies than his weak sperm could manufacture.

The terminal illness would just be a bad hand he was dealt.

It's as simply as that for the diehard atheist, right? Any deeper meaning he would try to apply here would be just an illusion.

I'd say that if his wife took the money and ran off with another man, then too bad for the atheist. His wife simply found a better "hunter/gatherer" and a better mate for superior babies than his weak sperm could manufacture.

So this can also happen to a christian, a Jew, a Buddhists etc.....so its a crisis for them as well.

The terminal illness would just be a bad hand he was dealt.

These are dealt to everyone. Some use imaginary friends to help them get through it and die anyway.....so belief in a deity does not stop death.

It's as simply as that for the diehard atheist, right? Any deeper meaning he would try to apply here would be just an illusion.

No the actual illusion is believing that some sight unseen deity is going to save you.....all this is a fact of life be you atheists, christian, whatever.....goofy ass thread if you ask me and no one is.

[geo]

Do people really believe in an afterlife? If so, wouldn't they hoop and holler when someone close to them died?

So, no. Most folks, even devout believers, are profoundly affected by death. No one gets out of here alive.

I've always liked that old saying, sometimes attributed to Plato. Who knows, maybe it was Jesus.

"Be kind for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."

[youkrst]

Do people really believe in an afterlife?

i suppose it depends what the definition of an afterlife is. i kind of favour a before during and after life.

it wouldn't surprise me if "consciousness" is "god" and in some freaky trans-dimensional way all consciousness is one.

"all in all" as some writers put it.

it would explain why so many people have trouble finding god, ie. because he is wearing them.

kind of like the sagan quote, “We are a way for the universe to know itself”

so if when i die my consciousness reunites with the others or with the all in some as yet mysterious way, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

but if that's not the case and i cease to exist, well, i wont know the difference any more to be too disappointed.

though i strongly suspect an underlying unity behind an outward diversity, i'd rather experience life than get bogged down in any particular metaphor for that which is beyond language.

but hell, in some cases i'd be happy just to see life before death, let alone life after death.

when i look at the level of consciousness in many places i wonder if some forms consciousness are worth preserving.

although i suppose a rose needs some dirt to grow out of.

i saw a guy the other day who was surrounded by infinite beauty, and indwelt by unimaginable mysteries and yet he was almost completely blind to it all, and filled with fatgut redneck rage, as ignorant as the day is long.