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Introduction to The Hobbit
- stahrwe
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Re: Introduction to The Hobbit
One can read the Alice In Wonderland books as mere fantasy and enjoy them too, but when one looks more deeply a whole new experience presents itself. The difference is like reading about a roller coaster ride v. actually riding one. The same can be said for Tolkien's work.
n=Infinity
Sum n = -1/12
n=1
where n are natural numbers.
Sum n = -1/12
n=1
where n are natural numbers.
- DWill
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Re: Introduction to The Hobbit
I wonder if Tolkien ever elaborated on the Catholicism of the books. Writers such as Graham Greene, Flannery O'Connor, and Walker Percy are said by critics to be Catholic in their outlook. I don't know exactly what the critics mean, but I don't think it has to do with any Christian symbolism so much as an attitude toward existence. The fact that Tolkien says 'Catholic' and not 'Christian' might be a tip-off that he is using the label in this certain way. A not so far-fetched guess is that Tolkien's world in LOTR is Catholic in the sense that good and evil are quite distinct, with evil always going for the upper hand, and that we're called upon to be heroes to the point of self-sacrifice if we expect the good to prevail.
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Re: Introduction to The Hobbit
That's actually pretty interesting. It's always fun to go back to something you thought you knew and looking at it in a whole new light. I wonder what catholic symbolism can be found in this book? In the entire series?
I'm the kind of reader that likes to wonder what the person writing was like, what his motivation, what was he actually trying to say. I often catch myself wondering how much of the meaning I've found in a book has been imprinted by me, and how much by the author.
Thank you stahrwe.
I'll also be checking out The Inklings catrambo, as soon as I finish The Simpsons and Philosophy xD.
I'm the kind of reader that likes to wonder what the person writing was like, what his motivation, what was he actually trying to say. I often catch myself wondering how much of the meaning I've found in a book has been imprinted by me, and how much by the author.
Thank you stahrwe.
I'll also be checking out The Inklings catrambo, as soon as I finish The Simpsons and Philosophy xD.
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Re: Introduction to The Hobbit
I agree that reading straight through for enjoyment is awesome - that delicious immersion, losing yourself in a book is a feeling that is one of the best in the world. I read for pleasure, but with the books that really moved me, I often go back and try to figure out how the writer did what they did. I've read The Hobbit and the LotR enough times that it's a little embarrassing, but they've had such a big influence on fantasy literature that I find it fun to track the chains of influence.
I recently read a parody, The Soddit, or, Let's Cash in Again, by Adam Roberts (writing as A.R.R. Roberts), which I don't think I would have enjoyed a fraction as much unless I knew the Hobbit well. It was pretty silly (the trolls were cross-dressers, for one, which I found a little problematic), but it had some fun moments.
I recently read a parody, The Soddit, or, Let's Cash in Again, by Adam Roberts (writing as A.R.R. Roberts), which I don't think I would have enjoyed a fraction as much unless I knew the Hobbit well. It was pretty silly (the trolls were cross-dressers, for one, which I found a little problematic), but it had some fun moments.
- stahrwe
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Re: Introduction to The Hobbit
I have less interest in things Simpson than for a Christmas Hallmark Channel Romance. They owe Tracey Ullman big-time.
I believe that I have already posted Tolkien's quote that The Lord of the Rings was, "a fundamentally religious and Catholic work," and, while the current book under discussion is The Hobbit, it seems reasonable to look for the same, or at least similar glimpses of Christianity and Catholicism in its pages.
If you are looking for a helpful guide to accomplish that I suggest:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/161890 ... PDKIKX0DER
http://www.decentfilms.com/articles/faithandfantasy
I believe that I have already posted Tolkien's quote that The Lord of the Rings was, "a fundamentally religious and Catholic work," and, while the current book under discussion is The Hobbit, it seems reasonable to look for the same, or at least similar glimpses of Christianity and Catholicism in its pages.
If you are looking for a helpful guide to accomplish that I suggest:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/161890 ... PDKIKX0DER
http://www.decentfilms.com/articles/faithandfantasy
n=Infinity
Sum n = -1/12
n=1
where n are natural numbers.
Sum n = -1/12
n=1
where n are natural numbers.
- DWill
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Re: Introduction to The Hobbit
If you want a concise summary of what Tolkien may have meant in his statement, this source doesn't seem bad. It talks about the trilogy as a Christian myth with a Catholic "core."
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articl ... l0160.html
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articl ... l0160.html
- geo
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Re: Introduction to The Hobbit
Flannery O'Connor, C.S. Lewis, and Leo Tolstoy were each very deliberate in using Christian themes in their work. Flannery O'Connor pretty much assumed anyone who wasn't a Catholic was damned to hell and her stories were meant to be shocking as she wanted to shock her readers into accepting Christianity.
C.S Lewis' The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe is, of course, a Christian parable Aslan the lion is a Christ figure who is sacrificed to save others and is eventually resurrected.
One of my favorite books is Walter Wangerin's The Book of the Duncow which is also a Christian parable.
There was a time when it bothered me that these writers were using their fiction to proselytize. And I'm sure it's true that these writers were deeply connected to their religious beliefs and felt it their obligation to convince others of the truth of such beliefs. But in the end, how is that different from Orwell who arguably was motivated by political concerns? Or someone like Ursula Le Guin who is concerned with social equity? I don't think it matters at all. These writers all wrote great fiction that has stood the test of time.
Tolkien's themes of epic adventure and of sacrifice for the good of others have been used in many oral and written traditions dating thousands of years. These aren't strictly Christian themes and The Lord of the Rings doesn't read to me like a Christian work even if though I can easily accept that Tolkien found personal meaning in his religion. The Lord of the Rings was very much a reaction to the dark events surrounding World War I. Indeed, this article discusses Tolkien's many influences which include mythology, literary, Anglo-Saxon poetry, Wagnerian, as well as personal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._R._R._T ... influences
C.S Lewis' The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe is, of course, a Christian parable Aslan the lion is a Christ figure who is sacrificed to save others and is eventually resurrected.
One of my favorite books is Walter Wangerin's The Book of the Duncow which is also a Christian parable.
There was a time when it bothered me that these writers were using their fiction to proselytize. And I'm sure it's true that these writers were deeply connected to their religious beliefs and felt it their obligation to convince others of the truth of such beliefs. But in the end, how is that different from Orwell who arguably was motivated by political concerns? Or someone like Ursula Le Guin who is concerned with social equity? I don't think it matters at all. These writers all wrote great fiction that has stood the test of time.
Tolkien's themes of epic adventure and of sacrifice for the good of others have been used in many oral and written traditions dating thousands of years. These aren't strictly Christian themes and The Lord of the Rings doesn't read to me like a Christian work even if though I can easily accept that Tolkien found personal meaning in his religion. The Lord of the Rings was very much a reaction to the dark events surrounding World War I. Indeed, this article discusses Tolkien's many influences which include mythology, literary, Anglo-Saxon poetry, Wagnerian, as well as personal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._R._R._T ... influences
-Geo
Question everything
Question everything
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Re: Introduction to The Hobbit
DOH!stahrwe wrote:I have less interest in things Simpson than for a Christmas Hallmark Channel Romance.
Ned is that you ?
classic.geo wrote:Flannery O'Connor pretty much assumed anyone who wasn't a Catholic was damned to hell and her stories were meant to be shocking as she wanted to shock her readers into accepting Christianity.
thanks for all the great posts and links everyone.
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Re: Introduction to The Hobbit
i was watching the movies the other day with my daughter and was drawn to the Smeagol/Gollum character.
i read this at wiki
i was interested in how it ended for Gollum.
i read this at wiki
ooops, i seem to have skipped a bit too far aheadFrodo stood on the edge of the Crack of Doom, but was unwilling to destroy the Ring, claiming it for himself and putting it on. Gollum struck again, and struggled with the invisible Frodo. Finally, Gollum bit off Frodo's finger and seized the Ring. He gloated over his "prize", dancing madly, but stepped over the edge and fell into the lava, taking the Ring with him with a last cry of "Precious!" Thus, the Ring was destroyed and Sauron defeated. Sam cursed Gollum after his death, but Frodo urged his friend to forgive him, as without him the quest would have failed and the war would have been lost.
i was interested in how it ended for Gollum.
Last edited by youkrst on Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- stahrwe
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Re: Introduction to The Hobbit
Geo's comment is well done and I learned something from it.
DWILL with his myth comment has ventured into seriously dangerous territory.
DWILL with his myth comment has ventured into seriously dangerous territory.
n=Infinity
Sum n = -1/12
n=1
where n are natural numbers.
Sum n = -1/12
n=1
where n are natural numbers.