The Magic of Reality: How We Know What's Really True - by Richard Dawkins

[sonoman]

I'm taking a break.

Yes, Chris, you're free to continue to abuse intellectual inquiry by using Booklist to draw in the intellectual public and then unload yours and little atheist clique here's atheist propaganda on them, bombarding theists with anything from stink bomb petty putdowns like your last comment, a great well thought out unbiased one from a supposed objective book reviewing website editor. You treat your ideological opponents like shit, Chris. I don't feel at all welcome here, never did, because of yours and Interbane's such heavy atheist bias that if honesty were demanded of reviewers you would have recused yourselves from theistic books or theists members postings instead of coming down with heavy ad hominen slander and allowance of atheist gangster ad hominen attacking of theist posters. But you didn't ban me this time so I should feel grateful.. such a mensch and provider of high level intellectual discussion...in your dreams..

I'll periodically check this site and if it still a venue for theist bashing by atheists I'll find other places to discuss books dealing with theology.

[ant]

advocates of an “anything goes” lifestyle.

I don't actually believe that that holds true for all atheists, or even the greater majority of atheists.

demonized as arrogant intellectuals, antagonistic to religion,

Not all atheists are like this. However the self proclaimed "new atheists" for the most part fit this description.
Yes, I've listened to these new atheists in action on more than one occasion.
It largely has to do with the influence of popular writers (Dennet, Dawkins, Harris, Shermer, and even Hawking to a certain extent). Most new atheists just parrot what these authors have written.

Many of the authors, for example, express great affection for particular religious traditions, even as they explain why they cannot, in good conscience, embrace them. None of the contributors dismiss religious belief as stupid or primitive, and several even express regret that they cannot, or can no longer, believe.

Many? I'd like to know which.
The only one I can think of that matches this description is Alain de Button. I've mentioned him here before.
He has much insight to share. Again, I think those atheists that do ridicule religion to the 10th degree are the mirror imagine of religious fundamentalists.

Thanks for sharing this.

[ant]

to draw in the intellectual public

As far as the science and religion folks are concerned, I've never considered any of the fellow residents (including myself, of course) to be true intellectuals with any unique or novel insight. It's actually mostly regurgitating the likes of popular contemporary authors who have had best sellers that did well in circulation. I have yet to run into any true genius. Certainly those that do fit into the genius category are engaged in other matters.

Genius is like a marksman who hits a target which others cannot see

The atheists here for whatever reason can not help to cross over from "I am an atheist, which only means that I lack belief in god" to "I am an atheist who lacks belief and also believes that god does not exist." Therein lies the problem. Therein lies the absurd contradiction the atheist is committing.
He goes further by using science as an authority from which to speak:

"I do not believe in God and science does not either. Science too is atheistic. Science is immensely successful, therefore I am right and you are wrong"

This is hijacking science strictly for the purpose of promoting a personal worldview, for science is not in the business of proving or disproving the existence or non existence of a god of any kind.

Atheism has meant many things throughout history. Historically, the idea of atheism, from what I understand, has been used generically to rebel against the power of "the church," to usurp the influence of religion in general, to exert will over people, and most recently, to do battle with the idea of faith and grace. Atheism is attempting to respond on an intellectual battle field. It is mostly an "empire of thought" created to do battle with the "empire of religious thought."

But atheism too has something to share. I believe that.

Atheism has always been the underdog throughout history. Ironically, there are individual biographies that tell us of atheists that became "believers" in the truest sense.
What is the response from the atheist camp? Is it that these converted intelligent atheists, who have told us they lived their lives strictly by logic and reason alone, suddenly became delusional, were traumatized somehow, and as a result, converted back to believing in santa claus, tea pots, and unicorns, or caught a religious meme because some religious person sneezed on them?

[ant]

Yep, God will retreat for some. Others will incorporate the newly discovered alien life forms into their belief system.

What if an advanced alien civilization believes in God?
How will you incorporate that into your belief system? Would you chalk it up to a galactic delusion?

If one of these ET's discovered you did not believe in God and asked you by what means did your methodology prove the non existence of God, how would you explain that although human scientific methodology is not designed to examine supernatural claims, despite ET's claim (hypothetical) that God is above nature, the conclusion is obvious - God does not exist.

Do you think the discovery of ET will be evidence God does not exist?

[geo]

Yep, God will retreat for some. Others will incorporate the newly discovered alien life forms into their belief system.

What if an advanced alien civilization believes in God?
How will you incorporate that into your belief system? Would you chalk it up to a galactic delusion?

If one of these ET's discovered you did not believe in God and asked you by what means did your methodology prove the non existence of God, how would you explain that although human scientific methodology is not designed to examine supernatural claims, despite ET's claim (hypothetical) that God is above nature, the conclusion is obvious - God does not exist.

Do you think the discovery of ET will be evidence God does not exist?

Me personally, I would think it would be fascinating to compare an ET's biology with earth organisms' biology. It would be interesting to look at an alien's culture as well, see if there are similarities with our own. Our own culture is frankly a hodepodge of a whole lot of nonsense. We have pop culture songs, advertising jingles, obsolete agricultural practices, zombie literature, as well as weird reiigious esoteric ideas like baptism, free will versus predestination. I would expect an alien culture to have none of these things, but who knows? I'm sure it's well beyond our capacity to even imagine what an alien culture would look like.

We have theories about the evolutionary purpose of religious belief and certainly it would be very interesting if aliens also believed in a all powerful deity. Would their God be anything like our God? The problem with this question is that our word for "God" is so ambiguous. "God" is a word that frequently represents the unknown or stands for eternity. To some God also frequently represents human qualities like love. Certainly one would not expect the aliens to believe in the Christian concept of God. That would seem impossible when you consider how Christianity arose from a specific time and place in our history. It's culture-dependent.

[Chris OConnor]

Richard Dawkin's "The Magic of Reality" is on the new poll which is currently up and awaiting your votes.