One note on Josephus, and I'd have to go back to my texts to be able to give precise information, but there seems to be evidence that the supposed writings of Josephus concerning Jesus might be a forgery. From what I've read, and there's also a clip here of The Atheist Experience where they mention it briefly (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIkvvNng6os), there's only a passing mention of Jesus in the tests, the writing doesn't quite fit and flow with the rest of the text, and overall it just looks like a fake. Not to undermine anything else you've said, but I would feel bad if I didn't address this point. Once again, I would have to go back to have a more fully detailed answer for you on this.Flann 5 wrote:Thanks Movie Nerd.Movie Nerd wrote:While Jesus does come off as divine in Biblical and general Christian texts, that alone does not justify belief in Christ as a god figure. There is still a difference between there being a historical figure named Christ and Christ actually being the Son of God. Once we dig deeper and find the true source of myths, legends and tall tales, we are usually underwhelmed by the truth.
I suppose I was picking up on Bishop's stuff from Freke and those who positively assert the whole Pagan influence and parallels idea and claim there was no historical Jesus.
I think the messianic prophecies are good evidence. Of course some postulate ideas of the gospel authors just looking at the old testament and inventing a person and story to fit the prophecies.
But then there is evidence for Christ being crucified by Pilate and how a religion starting in Jerusalem with this as foundational could start if they would know it hadn't happened doesn't make sense.
One interesting prophecy concerned John the Baptist the forerunner of Jesus.What's worth noting here is that Josephus also talks about him so you cant fit it into the unknown authors concocting fictional stories scenario.
I think the miraculous is what people really object to.
I'm going to provide a link on messianic prophecy mainly for those new to this forum.
http://www.thedevineevidence.com/prophecy_jesus.html
Here's the excerpt from Josephus.
http://clas-pages.uncc.edu/james-tabor/ ... he-baptis/
Josephus also accords with the gospel narrative concerning Herod having taken his brother Philip the Tetrach's wife, and the fallout from it.
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Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.
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Re: Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.
I am just your typical movie nerd, postcard collector and aspiring writer.
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Re: Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.
I agree. When I see people run from a discussion, I know I have done well and when I see a well done post that is hard to refute, I do the backpedalling.lehelvandor wrote:Actually Flann, would dare to say that it is not a cop out - I mean that what they do on this forum is not actually to dismiss, ignore etc. points that contradict theirs.
Instead, the so far seen often desperate attempts to whip up dust instead of engaging serve (very well) one purpose: some terrible, desperate need to re-enforce their own (and I use the word with the fullest semantic intent) *belief* system.
Every time an abusive and/or belittling statement is made, it just helps the person with feeling safer, more certain, more convinced of his/her *beliefs*.
Note the verbal patterns used, they are very typical and very consistent. Not sure about England, but they are taught in some countries in first year psychology. Thus, this forum is not a discussion for some, where there is engagement and any mutual respect for sometimes wildly different views/ideas, it is a tool for gaining strength in their *beliefs*.
Mind you, I have not had to do that for a while now. I like to lose debates as that is when I actually gain. I learn something and learning is one of the greatest pleasures I know.
It seems our friend does not like to learn.
Regards
DL
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Re: Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.
That is tough to explain. It has a number of messages for me.ant wrote:DL.,
I just viewed the youtube video you have at the bottom of your first post.
Do you feel like sharing what significance it has for you?
First, it tells theists that their endless quoting has been heard by most in these places forever and falls on death ears the same way it does to that lad as he puts his fingers in his ears.
It is also a reminder to me to not do that type of thing either even when I get passionate about sharing my beliefs.
It is also a reminder to theists that indoctrination of children is immoral and as that child shows, he can find his own expression of spirituality without adult guidance. We hurt more children than we help with indoctrination into the supernatural and unproven world. Especially when the God involved threatens them with terrible eternal cruelty if they do not kowtow to the supernatural.
The scene of the heart tells me that indeed, those of spirituality are known by their deeds and not their words.
I tend to only use it when a theist has gone way over the 6 inch rule with useless G.D. biblical garbage.
Regards
DL
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Re: Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.
Speaking of Josephus, this link will show how he is alledged to have basically re-written the N. T. for Rome. He was adopted in to Roman Royalty and I doubt anything he wrote due to that fact.Movie Nerd wrote:[
One note on Josephus, and I'd have to go back to my texts to be able to give precise information, but there seems to be evidence that the supposed writings of Josephus concerning Jesus might be a forgery. .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJgvws0ZYUE
Regards
DL
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Re: Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.
I hadn't heard of it. Will definitely check it out. Thanks.Gnostic Bishop wrote:Speaking of Josephus, this link will show how he is alledged to have basically re-written the N. T. for Rome. He was adopted in to Roman Royalty and I doubt anything he wrote due to that fact.Movie Nerd wrote:[
One note on Josephus, and I'd have to go back to my texts to be able to give precise information, but there seems to be evidence that the supposed writings of Josephus concerning Jesus might be a forgery. .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJgvws0ZYUE
Regards
DL
I am just your typical movie nerd, postcard collector and aspiring writer.
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Re: Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.
Sorry Bishop,Gnostic Bishop wrote:Speaking of Josephus, this link will show how he is alledged to have basically re-written the N. T. for Rome. He was adopted in to Roman Royalty and I doubt anything he wrote due to that fact.
I think you will find after a while that the mythicist world is rife with conspiracy theories all contradicting each other as do their versions of which Pagan myths supposedly influenced the gospels.
On Atwill's messiah here's Chris White performing a useful service for those interested in truth and facts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnV0cJgTRiM
Movie Nerd here's a link for you on Josephus and John the Baptist. Let me know how you read it?
The atheist experience thinks it's a fake? I can only quote the famous immortal words;" Well they would say that wouldn't they?"
http://www.livius.org/jo-jz/josephus/fjo2.html This website is being updated Nerd. Do a google search;The death of John the Baptist Livius and you will find the article. Thanks
Last edited by Flann 5 on Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.
Arggh - Atwill crap.Movie Nerd wrote:I hadn't heard of it. Will definitely check it out. Thanks.Gnostic Bishop wrote:Josephus... alledged to have basically re-written the N. T. for Rome.
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Re: Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.
Um, what did I do or say that was crap? He recommended and suggested something to me, and I said I will check it out. I'm open to check things out.Robert Tulip wrote:Arggh - Atwill crap.Movie Nerd wrote:I hadn't heard of it. Will definitely check it out. Thanks.Gnostic Bishop wrote:Josephus... alledged to have basically re-written the N. T. for Rome.
I am just your typical movie nerd, postcard collector and aspiring writer.
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Re: Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.
He's just trying to discourage free thought, thats all.
He's also deep into conspiracy theories whenever they will bolster an argument of his.
That and the power of conspiracy theories can never be proven wrong, so - presto! He wins!
Same old stuff
He's also deep into conspiracy theories whenever they will bolster an argument of his.
That and the power of conspiracy theories can never be proven wrong, so - presto! He wins!
Same old stuff
Last edited by ant on Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.