Should countries outlaw the hijab, niqab and burka?

[Chris OConnor]

Abu Dhabi Stabbing: Why Law Enforcement Hates The Niqab & Burqa

[Gnostic Bishop]

Any garment that completely disguises the identity of a person concerns me. What is to prevent a group of men with AK-47s or bombs from walking into the middle of a public area hiding beneath burkas?

Chad was a victim of just that, just to name on country, and did not screw around with stupid freedom of religion.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-33166220

Regards
DL

[Chris OConnor]

The prime minister said the veil was used as a "camouflage" by militants and said the security forces will burn all full-face veils sold in markets.

[Gnostic Bishop]

We mostly do recognize that Islam is just a tool that terrorists and jihadists use to hide in but the fact that so many think as they do without acting on it shows that Islam must change yet they resist change with a vengeance.

It is almost like they like to have terrorists hide within their ranks.

There are many colors of Islam but one wonders why terrorists and jihadists can blend into those colors so easily.

Regards
DL

Hi D.L, No one with any real understanding of Middle East politics thinks these crises in the Arab world can be easily or quickly resolved. Unfortunately in Fisk's words Syria's conflict contains war criminals galore.
The deliberately shocking brutality of Isil arose out of the conflict in Iraq and sectarian retaliations. The 'theology' Isil embraces reduces all other people to the level of non human and 'justifies' cold blooded murder on that basis.

It's hardly true that Isil is militarily unbeatable but the conflicting goals of various nations involved has created an impasse which seems likely to just perpetuate the war in Syria.
It may be that the Turkey summit will produce a more coherent strategy in dealing with Isil though the goal should be forcing the protagonists to negotiations with a view to ending the conflict in a way that is not sectarian.
I have no illusions that Putin or other powers involved are motivated primarily by altruism.
Isil are at war with just about everyone and force seems necessary to bring them to see that they can not succeed militarily and that negotiations are needed.
At the same time it's a horrific war. They will use hospitals and mosques and what civilian populations remain as a shield against bombing.
A recent report from Raqqa says two hospitals were air bombed recently by the French.
Accidental,who knows?
There's also the apocalyptic vision of the Caliphate with the view of of divinely conferred invincibility which could evaporate with military setbacks.
That could have a profound effect on them psychologically. The bombing of hospitals even if used for cover is both foolish,callous and self defeating but unfortunately I don't think in the emotionally charged atmosphere many nations involved will seriously try to avoid this.
Bashir Al Assad is a war criminal and so are Isil. Not a great choice. So it's a real problem in terms of justice either way.
In the end some sort of compromise will be reached and justice won't be it's primary goal.

FMPOV, all deaths in Syria of non-combatants are unfortunate but since the evil hide with the good and the good are not promoting changer in their core beliefs, --- thus facilitating jihadist growth, then all the West should apologise with to send the right message to all of Islam is, ---- oops, they should have reformed Islam, the most immoral religion on the face of the planet.

Rather cold hearted for sure, but all true.

Regards
DL

[Flann 5]

The article itself Chris said the incident was anomalous. Identification should not be an issue where authorities if they are suspicious can simply ask the person to be identify themselves. I don't think they refuse to do this in airports and similar settings.

In any case weapons can be concealed in all kinds of clothing so it's not going to prevent an attack if someone is determined to do so.
They expect to either kill themselves or be killed in such incidents. I don't think it's going to provide any significantly greater security.
In fact someone wearing a burqa or niqab is more likely to be viewed with suspicion than the averagely dressed person and more likely to be checked by security forces.
We're talking about a tiny percentage of Muslim women even in France.
I don't think it's a particularly liberating garb but it's what they think they should wear and an expression of their religious identity.

[Gnostic Bishop]

The prime minister said the veil was used as a "camouflage" by militants and said the security forces will burn all full-face veils sold in markets.

All countries should do the same and just that united front would give Islam a clear message that their misogyny must end. All countries should also outlaw child brides and rape laws. If Islam is not brought to heel from within, then the civilized world has no choice but to do it from without.

A rabid dog can only be killed or cured.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

The article itself Chris said the incident was anomalous. Identification should not be an issue where authorities if they are suspicious can simply ask the person to be identify themselves. I don't think they refuse to do this in airports and similar settings.

In any case weapons can be concealed in all kinds of clothing so it's not going to prevent an attack if someone is determined to do so.
They expect to either kill themselves or be killed in such incidents. I don't think it's going to provide any significantly greater security.
In fact someone wearing a burqa or niqab is more likely to be viewed with suspicion than the averagely dressed person and more likely to be checked by security forces.
We're talking about a tiny percentage of Muslim women even in France.
I don't think it's a particularly liberating garb but it's what they think they should wear and an expression of their religious identity.

A religious identity that says I am a slave to my husband or father should never be allowed to be paraded in our free nations.

Islam is a vile creed and none should have to tolerate such displays of misogyny.

I see this as analogues to the KKK walking around black communities.

Moral blacks would be incensed by that and we free people should be just as incensed by Muslim men forcing their women to dress as they dictate in our free lands.

Regards
DL

[Flann 5]

Well if it really is a security issue it's something that needs to be worked out with the Muslim community.

The suspicion is that it's just a way of making Muslims feel marked out by the rest of society for disapproval of their religion.
If you think it's really going to stop determined attacks,it's not.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/par ... 35491.html
Security can have successes but it's just not possible to completely prevent these Paris soft target type attacks.

Why did Isil members become so radicalised and brutal? Was it just religion? In the end the underlying issues of territory,wealth and poverty,sectarianism,revenge and injustice have to be addressed.
Just branding Islam and all Muslims in the same way is neither accurate or a solution,D.L.

[Gnostic Bishop]

Well if it really is a security issue it's something that needs to be worked out with the Muslim community.

The suspicion is that it's just a way of making Muslims feel marked out by the rest of society for disapproval of their religion.
If you think it's really going to stop determined attacks,it's not.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/par ... 35491.html
Security can have successes but it's just not possible to completely prevent these Paris soft target type attacks.

Why did Isil members become so radicalised and brutal? Was it just religion? In the end the underlying issues of territory,wealth and poverty,sectarianism,revenge and injustice have to be addressed.
Just branding Islam and all Muslims in the same way is neither accurate or a solution,D.L.

I do not brand them all the same way as all do not practice their religions faithfully.

Those that do follow it are following a homophobic and misogynous creed with a lot of other immoral tenets from female genital mutilation, child brides and honor killings.

If you want to start trying to pick out the good out of a majority of evil then go ahead.

I would rather tackle the big problem and let the little ones take care of themselves.

Islam will not reform if we accept it. Better to reject it and see if it can improve. If not, its isolation is good.

------------

Not to overload you but at the same time as I agree that some terrorists will get through, many will not. Here are a few links showing this as well as some showing the fears of some in Europe.

Greek coastguards seize huge shipment of arms and ammo ...
www.independent.co.uk › News › World › Middle East
6 Sep 2015 - A huge stash of weapons and ammunition has been found hidden ... Osborne hints at military strikes in Syria to stem exodus of refugees ...

Refugee Relief Supply" Cargo Container Arrives In Greece ...
theconservativetreehouse.com/.../rut-roh-a-refugee-relief-supply-cargo-c...
10 Sep 2015 - It would appear the relief supplies were actually a container filled with weapons. Remember, this arrived in Greece specifically designated for ...

Man With Explosives And GPS To Paris Arrested Last Week ...
godfruits.tv/51-year-old-man-explosives-car-arrrested/
The car with the Belgian licence plates was a rental. ... a suicide bomber a Syrian passport was found at another possible attack site were, Earlier Saturday, ... Which was a transit point for Syrian refugees fleeing their war-torn country. ... man, who had firearms, explosives and hand grenades in his car and was arrested Nov.

Paris attacks: Man arrested in Germany for smuggling firearms
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/paris-attacks- ... ling-firea...
4 days ago - Police found weapons and explosives concealed in a "professional" hiding ... hand grenades and ammunition concealed in the car's bodywork, they said. .... First refugees arrive in Glasgow despite backlash after Paris attacks.

THE MAN FROM MONTENEGRO SMUGGLING WEAPONS ...
https://birdflu666.wordpress.com/.../th ... m-monteneg...
3 days ago - Police found weapons under the boonet and took the car apart. In doing so, they found eight AK 47 rifles, 200 grammes of TNT explosives, hand grenades ... the Balkan states if Germany were to close its borders to refugees.

Car With Weapons and Explosives Found in Athens - Greece
greece.greekreporter.com › Greek news › Crime
1 Feb 2014 - A car with weapons and explosives has been found near the ... AK-47 Kalashnikov rifles, four hand grenades and a large number of rounds.

==========

Europe Is Finished Unless It Stops This Invasion Of Migrants ...
www.gatestoneinstitute.org/comments/55817
5 Sep 2015 - Unless Europe stops this invasion by illegal migrants, Europe is finished. There will be a Muslim majority in fairly short order and, when that ...

Europe is finished' Terror expert on Islamic 'no go zones ...
Video for is europe finished▶ 6:21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn8jNXfbIpA
8 Jan 2015 - Uploaded by benalvino1860
Europe is finished' Terror expert on Islamic 'no go zones' | Sean Hannity ..... Most of the people younger ...

Is "third world" Europe finished? - RT Op-Edge - RT.com
https://www.rt.com/op.../204495-ecclest ... e-britain/
11 Nov 2014 - Formula 1 boss Bernie Ecclestone says "third world" Europe is finished and some British industrialists agree. However, the reality is far more ...

'Europe is finished': Terror expert on Islamic 'no-go zones ...
Video for is europe finished▶ 6:20
video.foxnews.com/.../europe-is-finished-terror-exp...
'Europe is finished': Terror expert on Islamic 'no-go zones'. Jan. 08, 2015 - 6:20 - Steve Emerson on if ...

The Real Reason the EU Is Finished | Zero Hedge
www.zerohedge.com › Blogs › Phoenix Capital Research's blog
9 Jul 2015 - Europe as a whole is socialist with the percentage of the population employed by the Government ranging from 30% in Germany (the most ...

Regards
DL

[mlmooney89]

Lemmie just jump right in here…
DL,

If we pass a woman wearing such garb on the street, we have no idea as to whether she is forced or not but should ere on the side of freeing women from oppression in order to insure that all share our freedom in our free lands.

I know I catch major hell for wanting to be a 50’s Stepford wife by staying home with the kids, doing the bills, cooking, running errands, cleaning, having dinner on the table when the husband comes home, etc. They say it’s repression I say it’s a perfect life. One person’s hell is another person’s heaven. To assume that a woman walking down the street is being repressed simply because she is wearing certain clothing seems to be a bit dramatic.

I have forgotten if I posted this but I do like some of his ideas of sending immigrants back to fight for their rights the same way we had to.

While for the most part I agree I do think back and wonder what would have happened to the Jewish community during WWII if we as on lookers simply said ‘ya know what? How about you figure this out yourselves?’ It’s hard to get back up on your feet and battle an existing force while still trying to catch your breath.

Chad was a victim of just that, just to name on country, and did not screw around with stupid freedom of religion.

Yes it is very stupid to be able to believe what you want. I don’t know about you but I wouldn’t be happy in the Catholic countries that don’t give that freedom of religion. I know I am very lucky to not be forced to lie about what I believe. America was built on this freedom and I sure as hell would start another world war if someone tried to take it from me.



DB,

So when a Muslim walks by you, you just know whether he's a terrorist or not. I'll put it this way--you're sitting on a plane waiting to get airborne and several Arab guys get on and there's just something about them. Do you really want to be stuck at 20,000 feet with those guys? I don't. I can rationalize that most Muslims are decent people but that doesn't make me feel any more comfortable in that situation. I'm getting off.

(Edited because I incorrectly quoted this, once again my apologies) I find this the most racist comment on this thread. ANYONE can have a bomb and ANYONE can do something bad to you in a plane. I recall that it was white kids that shot up Columbine, a white man that shot up the Colorado movie theater, and a white man that killed those people in the South Carolina church. Imagine just going to school, church, or the movies and getting killed. The danger is not just from the Muslim community it is all around you and to single out just that group because of their skin color (seeing how you can’t tell a person’s religion based on a few men standing around) is the very definition of racism.