Universal Common Ancestor/The experiment

[Frank 013]

Quote:021.032 SHAKIR: And We have made the heaven a guarded canopy and (yet) they turn aside from its signs. This quote is not from the quaran, in the thread where we debated the 72 virgin myth you said that scriptures taken from other sources were not accurate, so I took the liberty of adding the actual quaran verses.Quote:Quaran: 21:32 And we have made the sky a roof withheld. Yet they turn away from its portents.This says nothing about a protective covering and besides biblical scholars in ancient and medieval times believed that the heavens held back water, which was the source of the protective description. Not scientific by a long shot.Quote:078.006-078.007 YUSUFALI: Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse, And the mountains as pegs?Again not from the quaran. Quote:Quaran: 78:6 Have We not made the earth an expanse,No pegs are mentioned, but even so there is a problem with the peg terminology. Quote:021.031 YUSUFALI: And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them, and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may receive GuidanceNot from the quaran.Quote:Quaran: 21:31 And We have placed in the earth firm hills lest it quake with them, and We have placed therein ravines as roads that haply they may find their way.First of all mountains do not have roots/pegs, I viewed an article supporting this idea and the research was done by a Muslim "science" group. I could not find any reference to a root or peg system in the works you offered up. At any rate, the findings are flatly refuted by the existence of Subduction zones, places where tectonic plates cross over each other. In some places plates are moving directly under mountains. This is not possible if a mountain is held in place by a peg, which would have the shape of say a nail. But the clearest problem with this is the fact that mountains are supposed to keep the earth from shaking. There is no evidence of this whatsoever. Here is some more of the quaran's greatest scientific hits.Quote:Quaran: 18:86 Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.The sun sets in a muddy spring at night? Quote:Quaran: 27:61 Is not He (best) Who made the earth a fixed abode,So the earth does not move?Quote:Quaran: 81:2 And when the stars fall,Can't happen.The quaran is as full of Bull as the bible, this is not surprising considering they come from the same source... Ignorant desert nomads.Later Edited by: Frank 013 at: 11/30/06 8:35 pm

[Asana Bodhitharta]

Frank 013,In all seriousness either concede to the last point or regret posting false arguments later. I have already studied this matter in depth and no scientist anywhere at anytime has ever observed NEW information Added to DNA naturally.Do you agree or will you be forced to retract later?I did not put this information down as a guess I had previously posted it on sites where scientist and geneticist frequent. No one here or anywhere can refute the information.

[Frank 013]

Quote:Can you show me anywhere in historical literature that adherents of Islam believed that "oceans of water were just beyond the heavens or any such similar beliefs"? The Game is over!Here is an article about the Old Testament and ancient Hebrew ideas about the universe. www.edwardtbabinski.us/sk...verse.html Islam was (in reality) developed in the 6th century and the Old Testament and by this time also Christian belief was as I stated before that the waters beyond the heavens existed.Islam obviously believed the same thing, (it was the popular belief of the time) the imagery of the quaran explains. Floating orbits, boats, a fixed earth. All fall into the description of the universe given by the Old Testament. Quote:I did not say as altered by science, I said as observed by science.In other words it happened naturally. The Game is over.First of all scientists did observe their results, it was an experiment of their own making but the addition of DNA has been observed.Second humans are a natural occurring species on this planet, so anything humans do is by definition natural.I know this is not what you were looking for, but it does "technically" satisfy your question. And here comes the whining!Later

[Frank 013]

Asana, I have answered and soundly destroyed every question and assumption you have put forth, how about going back and answering some of mine for a change?Later

[Asana Bodhitharta]

Quote:I know this is not what you were looking for, but it does "technically" satisfy your question. No it doesn't. And, if you know it's not what I'm looking for than why post it?Quote:Can you show me anywhere in historical literature that adherents of Islam believed that "oceans of water were just beyond the heavens or any such similar beliefs"? The Game is over!Quote:First of all scientists did observe their results, it was an experiment of their own making but the addition of DNA has been observed.Second humans are a natural occurring species on this planet, so anything humans do is by definition natural.That won't do! Assert the honesty that I know you possess and either concede or say you don't know. The Game is over!Quote:I have answered and soundly destroyed every question and assumption you have put forth, how about going back and answering some of mine for a change?Ask any question you want but please acknowledge that you have not answered my questions.

[Frank 013]

Quote:No it doesn't. And, if you know it's not what I'm looking for than why post it?Because, it does satisfy you question, the fact that you do not like it does not make it any less true.As to the answer you are looking for, I really do not know, and I am too tired of fussing with your silly beliefs to care much.At any rate the information is irrelevant. You are trying to take one question that science has not answered yet (assuming you are correct) and have decided that this one little query should disrupt the entire theory and wealth of other evidence. You are applying what is called a god of the gaps; it is as irrational as everything else you have posted. Quote:Ask any question you want but please acknowledge that you have not answered my questions.I have answered every question you have posted and utterly destroyed them with sound logic, including your last one. Do you really believe that you have actually maintained a successful debate? Do you think you are winning? Anyway, here are my questions?Why if the quaran is so scientifically correct does it say...That the earth is fixed in place?That the sun rests in the mud at night?That stars can fall to earth?When the quaran says that the sun and moon are subjugated by Allah's law which law is your science book referring to? If Allah created the heavens and earth in true proportions, what are the measurements? If (macro) evolution did not occur how do you explain the fossil record, and the geologic column?Why genetic and biology scientists think of micro and macro evolution as a single driving force? How do you explain biologist's successful predictions in the DNA research and the fossil record? Like the following...Quote:By Rick Weiss and David BrownWashington Post Staff WritersMonday, September 26, 2005; Page A08This is an excerpt from that article.But decoding chimpanzees' DNA allowed scientists to do more than just refine their estimates of how similar humans and chimps are. It let them put the very theory of evolution to some tough new tests.If Darwin was right, for example, then scientists should be able to perform a neat trick. Using a mathematical formula that emerges from evolutionary theory, they should be able to predict the number of harmful mutations in chimpanzee DNA by knowing the number of mutations in a different species' DNA and the two animals' population sizes."That's a very specific prediction," said Eric Lander, a geneticist at the Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard in Cambridge, Mass., and a leader in the chimp project.Sure enough, when Lander and his colleagues tallied the harmful mutations in the chimp genome, the number fit perfectly into the range that evolutionary theory had predicted.Their analysis was just the latest of many in such disparate fields as genetics, biochemistry, geology and paleontology that in recent years have added new credence to the central tenet of evolutionary theory: That a smidgeon of cells 3.5 billion years ago could -- through mechanisms no more extraordinary than random mutation and natural selection -- give rise to the astonishing tapestry of biological diversity that today thrives on Earth.And why do you keep writing the game is over? Are you finally giving in to my vastly superior coolness?I also have one question for the bystanders; who do you think is winning this debate? And if you don't mind write why.Later

[Frank 013]

AsanaOne last question...Considering that the quaran and the bible are both filled with factual errors, give me one good reason why I should believe any of their make-believe stories or world views?Later

[irishrosem]

Quote:I also have one question for the bystanders; who do you think is winning this debate? And if you don't mind write why.Frank, first I don't tend to consider debates as having winners or losers. Second, I don't consider any conversation (and I use this term loosely here) with Asana can really be put into the realm of actual debate. (I don't mean for this statement to diminish the effort you have put forth.) Last, I only really skim his stuff as it's not worth the time to read it.That being said, I had to respond to your question because for days now, when reading this thread, I get the image of a cat trapped in the corner. It's like a trained boxer sparring with some guy off the street. I think I read elsewhere, perhaps a bio, that you train martial arts. You know when you spar someone who hasn't really trained in anything, it's like they throw this shit out of nowhere. They flail helplessly , no structure, no technique, no thought. The difference is, when sparring, you always get hit, no matter how inexperienced your adversary. I have yet to see Asana land a blow. Hope this analogy makes sense.

[Frank 013]

I get the analogy completely! And thanks! That was a very gracious complement.Later

[Asana Bodhitharta]

Quote:like they throw this shit out of nowhere. They flail helplessly , no structure, no technique, no thought. The difference is, when sparring, you always get hit, no matter how inexperienced your adversary. I have yet to see Asana land a blow. Hope this analogy makes sense. You got knocked out first round of course you want my opponent to win(All praises due to God)