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Jesus = good. Yahweh/Allah = evil. Trinity = evil?

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LanDroid

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Re: Jesus = good. Yahweh/Allah = evil. Trinity = evil?

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When the doctrine of Trinity was developed is much less important here than what it actually means.
The dogma of the Trinity
The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion — the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another.

Thus, in the words of the Athanasian Creed: "the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God." In this Trinity of Persons the Son is begotten of the Father by an eternal generation, and the Holy Spirit proceeds by an eternal procession from the Father and the Son. Yet, notwithstanding this difference as to origin, the Persons are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent. This, the Church teaches, is the revelation regarding God's nature which Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came upon earth to deliver to the world: and which she proposes to man as the foundation of her whole dogmatic system.

...The first creed in which it appears is that of Origen's pupil, Gregory Thaumaturgus. In his Ekthesis tes pisteos composed between 260 and 270, he writes: "There is therefore nothing created, nothing subject to another in the Trinity: nor is there anything that has been added as though it once had not existed, but had entered afterwards: therefore the Father has never been without the Son, nor the Son without the Spirit: and this same Trinity is immutable and unalterable forever."

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm
Each of the three persons in the godhead possesses the same eternal and infinite divine nature; thus, they are the one, true God in essence or nature, not “three Gods.”

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/onlin ... he-trinity
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When you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide My eyes from you; even though you multiply your prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are covered with blood.
Isaiah 1:15

But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
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geo

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Re: Jesus = good. Yahweh/Allah = evil. Trinity = evil?

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newadvent wrote:Each of the three persons in the godhead possesses the same eternal and infinite divine nature; thus, they are the one, true God in essence or nature, not “three Gods.”
As a Catholic ("fallen" though I may be), I have heard a lot about the trinity since I was very young, and it has never made sense. Not because it is theologically complex, but because it is nonsensical. Obviously Thomas Aquinas spent a lot of time coming up with the concept in order to provide some logical consistency to a set of beliefs that are not always very coherent. Since "God" is arguably a manmade concept, not grounded in science or anything that can be studied objectively, there is very little agreement on the particulars by Christians and Jews and Muslims. One of our Young Earth Creationist forum members some years ago stated his belief that Catholics aren't really Christians. Some religions espouse that baptism is necessary for salvation, others say not. Anabaptists say that baptism is valid only when the candidate confesses his or her faith in Christ and wants to be baptized. Other faiths practice infant baptism. From a nonbeliever's perspective, these theological differences are easy to explain. It's all made up.

Consider the following passage from the Catholic article that Landroid posted:
. . . We should take note of the distinction between the "generative" procession that consititutes the Son, and the "spirative" procession that constitutes the Holy Spirit. As St. Thomas Aquinas explains, and Scripture reveals, the Son is uniquely "begotten" of the Father (cf. John 3:16; 1:18). He is also said to proceed from the Father as "the Word" in John 1:1. This "generative" procession is one of "begetting," but not in the same way a dog "begets" a dog, or a human being "begets" a human being. This is an intellectual "begetting," and fittingly so, as a "word" proceeds from the knower while, at the same time remaining in the knower. Thus, this procession or begetting of the Son occurs within the inner life of God. There are not "two beings" involved; rather, two persons relationally distinct, while ever-remaining one in being. . . .
Sorry, this is Deepak Chopra level of nonsense. Even believers can't agree on any of the particulars. And only a true believer, through sheer motivation to rationalize irrational beliefs, can read the preceding passage and nod his head, pretending to understand the so-called "doctrine of the trinity." Then again, I'm no "theologian."
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Re: Jesus = good. Yahweh/Allah = evil. Trinity = evil?

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Difficult discussion and getting heated. Luckily, I'm an atheist and have no opinion. This atheism thing is awesome.
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Re: Jesus = good. Yahweh/Allah = evil. Trinity = evil

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Well Geo, let's leave those Deepak Chopra details of the Trinity to the Jesuits. :x

One of the main points in this thread is the "Trinity is immutable and unalterable forever." This is not a fundamentalist belief, it is widely accepted. The problem is these believers don't recognize the implication that Jesus was present for all of the horrific acts of the Old Testament.

A minority of Christians do not believe this. As I understand it they are essentially claiming Yahweh is dead and the new theology of Jesus is ascendant. There are several problems with this.
  • The Trinity doctrine exists, how do you deal with that? Claim the Father and the Holy Spirit existed from the beginning, but when the Son was incarnated, the Father died? Now only Jesus and the Holy Spirit exist? Very strange.
  • “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." Matthew 5:17
    According to Jesus, the laws of the Old Testament have not changed.
  • Since eternal Truth is unchanging, how do you explain the purported radical changes in morals between the Old & New Testaments?
  • Claiming human understanding of eternal Truth has evolved is not very satisfactory. The Divine Message has always been the same, but our understanding of it has improved over time? That's like claiming the message of Exodus 21: 23 - 25 in my sig file has been misinterpreted for thousands of years and, if properly understood, is exactly the same as the values in the Sermon on the Mount.
  • Many Christians believe there will be massive bloodbaths as the predictions in Revelations come true. The values of the Sermon on the Mount will disappear and the vengeance of Yahweh will return, reversing the arc of history, another break in eternal Truth.
_______________________________________________________
When you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide My eyes from you; even though you multiply your prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are covered with blood.
Isaiah 1:15

But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
Exodus 21: 23 - 25
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