Hmmm....

[ayemea]

Hi,

here are some of my own thoughts/beliefs:
1. I don't believe in hell. I don't know if there's something like heaven either, but I at least believe in some kind of afterworld (however it may be).

2. I believe in souls and reincarnation. I don't think we have just this one life, but many others waiting for us. Although I don't believe this is going on for all eternity. I think we will just stay in the afterworld after gaining enough experience on earth.

3. I somehow believe in god, but I don't have a certain image of him/her. I don't believe god is either male or female. He/she is something in between.

4. I belive in angels and I think everyone has a guardian angel.

5. I don't think we have some kind of destiny.

6. I think nobody should try to convince someone else of his own beliefs. My way of thinking about religion is my way of thinking about it. It doesn't concern others and the beliefs of others don't concern me, even if I don't agree with them.


After all, I like the spiritual way of believing the most (I don't know if 'spiritual' is really fitting for this, but I can't think about a better word).

[Mr. P]

Open your Bible to the first page, Mr. P, and I will try to explain.

Nah...I had enough of that thing when I was a child. And drop the patronizing symbolism please or this will quickly degenerate.

First, there are no "naming patterns." Hebrew and Arabic name the days by number: the first day (Day One); the second day (Day Two); etc. The secret is that what God did on each day corresponds exactly to the non-Hebrew astrological meanings of the planets.
Tom

I am still not sure why you find this so deep or revealing (what?). To me this only seems like a confluence of prior ideas, words and meanings being re-written in a new book. WE named the planets, WE named the days of the week.
And I do not believe in a god, so I do not get too awed about what it did in stories.

Mr. P.

[Penelope]

I just want to butt in here, because this sort of thing delights me!!!

I do like to study the roots and origins of language, you see, nothing spiritual.

The French call Friday, Vendredi - Venus Day but the anglo saxon's with their Viking heritage call it Friday - Freya's day (Jaywalker has a thing about her!).


Mercredi - is, of course - Mercury's Day and we call it Wednesday - Woden's Day.

Juedi - is Jupiter's Day - but we call it Thursday - Thor's Day.

So they are the same Gods (same attributes) but with Latin or Nordic roots.


Just thought you might be interested.

[Thomas Hood]

Nah...I had enough of that thing when I was a child. And drop the patronizing symbolism please or this will quickly degenerate.

Sorry to offend, Mr. P. The Devil made me do it

I am still not sure why you find this so deep or revealing (what?). To me this only seems like a confluence of prior ideas, words and meanings being re-written in a new book. WE named the planets, WE named the days of the week.

Yes, Mr. P, humanity did the naming, but if you know your science the naming isn't arbitrary. The apparent order of the planets as viewed from the earth is

(earth) Moon Mercury Venus Sun Mars Jupiter Saturn

In naming the days of the week, a planet from the Sun and beyond was paired with a planet below the Sun. Thus

Sun, Moon; Mars, Mercury; Jupiter, Venus; Saturn

Or

Sunday Monday Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday.

See how clever the week is? A place for every god and every god in its place, and it's important that no god be overlooked, else the god became irritable and caused storms and droughts and plagues and earthquakes, and, well, maybe global warming. As trivial as these ideas may seem now, they weren't trivial three thousand years ago. Placing these ideas in their cultural context resolves many perplexing science/religion issues. Deeply revealing it definitely is, and we continue to organize our lives by the pattern of the week.

Tom

[Thomas Hood]

I just want to butt in here, because this sort of thing delights me!!!

Delights me too.

Mercredi - is, of course - Mercury's Day and we call it Wednesday - Woden's Day.

And Mercury was the messenger of the gods and brought the divine messages to humans. That's because the planet Mercury is so speedy, darting across the face of the Sun, around behind, and brightly off to each side, but never far from the Sun, as he is always on call to receive a new message. So look at what God made on Mercury's day: "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs. . ."

Tom

[Penelope]

You know what Thomas Hood.....?

You really are quite, quite - brillig!!!! xxxx

[Thomas Hood]

You really are quite, quite - brillig!!!! xxxx

I am a slithy tove but sometimes inspired by the great company I keep

Tom

[Chris OConnor]

Ayemea

1. I don't believe in hell. I don't know if there's something like heaven either, but I at least believe in some kind of afterworld (however it may be).

I never understood how anyone can just believe in anything. It seriously perplexes me. What sort of evidence do you have for an afterworld? And if you don't have evidence why on earth would you believe in one?

2. I believe in souls and reincarnation. I don't think we have just this one life, but many others waiting for us.

There is absolutely no evidence for reincarnation. So why do you believe in it? If you believe because believing makes you feel good then let me know this is the reason. I'll think up some even cooler stories that will make you feel even more excited and you can just replace your belief in reincarnation with a similar belief in my stories. I promise my stories will blow away reincarnation!

Although I don't believe this is going on for all eternity. I think we will just stay in the afterworld after gaining enough experience on earth.

So this cycle of being born over and over again could have an end to it. How do you know this? How do you know that it doesn't keep going on and on and on....?

3. I somehow believe in god, but I don't have a certain image of him/her. I don't believe god is either male or female. He/she is something in between.

God is some sort of transformer. Ok, fine. Does God have a penis and a vagina or both or neither? If he has a penis does he urinate and get erections? If so this means he has a urinary system and circulatory system. In fact it means a whole bunch of things. So maybe God doesn't have a penis or vagina at all. It is just a bald spot where he or she stores car keys and coins.

What do you mean by "something in between?" And if you find my questions "silly" ask yourself why. Why is asking if a being with a penis gets an erection silly. All beings I know of that have penises get erections. How is it that you are able to believe in a God that is between a male and female? Explain what you mean in detail. And if you can't ask yourself how you can believe in something you cannot describe, define or explain....yet you believe.

4. I believe in angels and I think everyone has a guardian angel.

Why? How? Why do we have 1 guardian angel only? How do you know it isn't 345 guardian angels?

5. I don't think we have some kind of destiny.

Did you flip a coin to decide on your beliefs? If not explain how you came to this belief while billions of people believe that we do indeed have some sort of destiny. How is your belief more reasonable?

6. I think nobody should try to convince someone else of his own beliefs.

What if I believe that people should love one another and treat them with respect? Shouldn't I try to convince other people to accept my belief?

Should teachers try to get their pupils to believe that 2 + 2 = 4 or is that being too pushy? Or is basic math not a matter of belief. Math is about facts, right? Where do we draw the line? Who gets to decide where facts end and fiction starts? The moment someone makes a magical or supernatural claim we have to step back and allow that irrational belief to flourish because beliefs are sacred?

My way of thinking about religion is my way of thinking about it.

What if your religion says you should show no mercy and slaughter infidels? And an infidel is anyone who doesn't believe in your deity or prophet. Should I step back and allow your beliefs to go unchecked because all beliefs are immune to critical examination?

Do you think all beliefs stay locked up inside the adherents head and never manifest themselves in the form of ugly and despicable actions? Can't certain beliefs lead mature adults to do horrific crimes against their neighbors? Are you sure that we should not challenge other peoples beliefs?

It doesn't concern others and the beliefs of others don't concern me, even if I don't agree with them.

You don't think that other people's beliefs are affecting you on a daily basis? Maybe this is because you live in a society where the majority of people around you have a similar belief system. Try to be an atheist or a few days.

[ayemea]

Chris

I never understood how anyone can just believe in anything.

Well, that's hard to explain. Actually, I think there isn't any good explanation on how to believe or why someone believes in something.
Why would I believe in an afterworld? That's probably, because I think, it's better to believe in an afterworld than to believe that we just won't exist anymore when we die. And since I already believe in something it would be nearly impossible for me to suddenly start to not believe in anything.
Believing in those things just makes my life easier than it would be otherwise.

I promise my stories will blow away reincarnation!

I would really like to hear those stories. Not that I would really start to believe in them, but I just like good stories.

How do you know that it doesn't keep going on and on and on....?

Well, I don't know it. That's the point in believing, isn't it?

God is some sort of transformer

That's actually not really the sort of thing I meant, but my formulations werer probably misleading. Actually, I don't think god is like a human in any way. I think, he's some non-human being.

If not explain how you came to this belief while billions of people believe that we do indeed have some sort of destiny. How is your belief more reasonable?

Aren't there also billions of people who do not believe in destiny? And about it being reasonable.... since when are beliefs reasonable?

Should I step back and allow your beliefs to go unchecked because all beliefs are immune to critical examination?

Of course you can try to convince someone else of your own beliefs, but I don't think that would lead anywhere. If someone believes something, it's not that easy to convince him of something else. You can criticize his beliefs if you want to, but I don't think it would do anything good. It's just part of the human nature to be stubborn.

Do you think all beliefs stay locked up inside the adherents head and never manifest themselves in the form of ugly and despicable actions?

I don't think that and I never said that. Just looking at the time of world war two and Hitler shows the opposite.

Maybe this is because you live in a society where the majority of people around you have a similar belief system.

Actually, the fewest people around me have a similar belief system and I don't really talk much to others about my own beliefs.

Should teachers try to get their pupils to believe that 2 + 2 = 4 or is that being too pushy?

By writing, that nobody should try to convince someone else of his own beliefs I meant religious beliefs, not mathematical facts.

[Mr. P]

Well, that's hard to explain. Actually, I think there isn't any good explanation on how to believe or why someone believes in something.

Michael Shermer's "How We Believe" is a good read.


Mr. P.