http://godisamyth.com/ - this site is not for stupid people
http://godisamyth.com/patriotism.htm - be unwilling to allow the lies of religious zealots to jeopardize the freedom of your nation
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"Only to realize that: "The separation of church and state actually means that the government has no control over religion???
And conflating Stalin with Athiests is not an attempt at creating an easy target?Robert Tulip wrote:
The advocates of atheism are a sorry and superficial lot in any case. Neither Stalin nor Dawkins show a good understanding of Christianity. Rather they are masters of the straw man argument, focussing on obvious errors and rejecting dialogue about why the literal meaning points towards a metaphorical reality.
The Soviet Union was the first state to have as an ideological objective the elimination of religion. Toward that end, the Communist regime confiscated church property, ridiculed religion, harassed believers, and propagated atheism in the schools. Some actions against Orthodox priests and believers along with execution included torture, being sent to prison camps, labour camps or mental hospitals. Many Orthodox (along with peoples of other faiths) were also subjected to psychological punishment or torture and mind control experimentation in order to force them give up their religious convictions. It is estimated some 20 million Christians (18 million Orthodox, 2 million Roman Catholic) died or were interned in gulags under the Soviet regime. Practicing Orthodox Christians were restricted from prominent careers and membership in communist organizations (the party, the Komsomol). Anti-religious propaganda was openly sponsored and encouraged by the government, which the Church was not given an opportunity to publicly respond to. The government youth organization, the Komsomol, encouraged its members to vandalize Orthodox Churches and harass worshipers. Seminaries were closed down, and the church was restricted from using the press.
The wikipedia article you posted is taken for what it is. But you HAVE to take MOTIVES into account with anything though. I have heard many Christians try to explain away 'abberations' of the faith with regard to the atrocities commited in it's name. Do you agree with this or not? The Crusades, Witch trials...etc...or can you "ignore this baggage?"Robert Tulip wrote:Ouch. Okay, so there are good atheists and bad atheists. I think Richard Dawkins is pretty good, but mainly when it comes to explaining science and attacking fundamentalism, not when it comes to explaining atheism.
See, I can ignore Stalin as any kind of 'true' atheist, in the context of people who CAN be good without god or religion. Your own paragraph explains why...he 'used the church when it suited his purpose". The form of atheism I respect and subscribe to would not do this. We have a very deep set trust of life without god. We are not playing angles to achieve anything but being left to live as we please without being discriminated against or having to deal with the simpletons who just cannot grasp how we can live without THEIR god.Stalin was number one in world history at enforcing atheism. You can't just ignore this baggage by saying he wasn't a real atheist. Sure, your Machiavellian explanation is largely true, as Stalin flipped to make use of the church during the war when it suited him.