Great Books

[President Camacho]

I think, despite the low number of members interested in the topic, there should be a section dedicated to Great Books. This list would be in constant need of revision. It would represent BT's choice on what the 100 Great Books should be. Those books would be discussed here, in this section. BT's Great Books selection could have some benefits for the website and gain it some notoriety if it's done right. I feel that it would be easy to nab a college professor to discuss each book with a small number of dedicated readers.

I went to Wikipedia to see exactly what a Great Books list is and this is what I found:

Great Books refers to a curriculum and a book list, as well as a method of education. Mortimer Adler lists three criteria for including a book on the list:

* the book has contemporary significance; that is, it has relevance to the problems and issues of our times;
* the book is inexhaustible; it can be read again and again with benefit; "This is an exacting criterion, an ideal that is fully attained by only a small number of the 511 works that we selected. It is approximated in varying degrees by the rest."[1]
* the book is relevant to a large number of the great ideas and great issues that have occupied the minds of thinking individuals for the last 25 centuries.


So, this list would be very much like a curriculum. This list would serve to guide readers and give some motivation to read Great Books!


I'm going to use this thread to start a collection on what I feel would be some good choices for inclusion.

HOMER
AESCHYLUS
SOPHOCLES
THUCYDIDES
PLATO
AUGUSTINE
AQUINAS
EURIPIDES
PLUTARCH
XENOPHON
ARISTOTLE
EUCLID
VIRGIL
DANTE
MACHIAVELLI
GALILEO
MONTAIGNE
SHAKESPEARE
BACON
DESCARTES
PASCAL
HOBBES
LOCKE
HUME
MILTON
ROUSSEAU
GOETHE
TOCQUEVILLE
OVID
LIVY
MORE
VOLTAIRE
ARISTOPHANES
CICERO
TACITUS
LUCIAN
MARCUS AURELIUS
ERASMUS
HAMILTON

This is just to get things off and running. It may even be better just to use an existing list and then books can be voted on or voted off until the list looks like something this website would fully endorse and use as its Great Books list.

[Dexter]

IMHO, I think having a section or a subforum for Great Books is Great, I might be interested in participating -- even if there is currently low interest I don't see much of a downside. If there is a Bible section then why not? But I'm not sure you need to come up with a consensus endorsement of what they are. Any of the "famous" lists such as Adler's would be fine I think, you can just link to a few different versions -- you could always argue for adding something that's not on a particular list, but you don't want to just start adding peoples' favorite books.

I admire Adler's project, I would probably disagree with a few choices and for example I would have no desire to read some of the original scientific works that he included on his list (I'd rather read modern treatments or a book on the history of science), but otherwise it's a pretty standard list:
http://www.thegreatideas.org/greatbooks.html
or St. John's College Great Books program:
http://home.comcast.net/~antaylor1/grea ... tjohns.htm

[Suzanne]

I think this is a great idea and I think it could work. I do believe it would work best inside a forum. Within that forum could be threads that categorize the books. If you look at the link Angelicvm Academy which Dexter provided you will see that the books are organized very well. From the syllabus the categories are:

Ancient Greeks
Ancient Romans
High Medieval to Renaissance
Enlightenment to Modern Era
Modern Era

Modern Era is organized by these subtitles:
Imaginative Literature
Social Science
Natural Science
Philosophy and Religion

This site gives titles that pertain to each catagory. Of course the list of titles can be modified and be added to once the format has been created.

Only Chris can set up forums. Any member can set up a Great Books thread. But with so many categories of books, I don't see it working within a small space such as a thread.

As far a discussions go, I don't know how that would work. What ideas do you guys have concerning discussions? Members have different tastes. But I do believe giving members a list of Great Books that have merit should be available to readers.

Is this forum something you guys would be interested in, or are you looking for something more casual?

[President Camacho]

That is a superb suggestion!!!! Perfect. Yes, that is just fine. I'm liking that very much.

[Chris OConnor]

President Camacho, this is a great idea. But as you said we need to do it right if we want it to be a success.

As Suzanne said we would want a brand new forum specifically for discussing these "Great Books." But I don't see a reason to break the books down into categories. I'm not sure how such a concept would work anyways. We would have a forum for the great books and then threads for categories? I see having threads for each great book, not for each category.

If this forum is permanent (and it would be) we have to face the reality that this forum would have to be somewhat free flowing where people can create threads as they see fit. It is easy to envision 1 single thread per great book, but imagine how impractical that would be. Look at any of our more active book discussions. They are 1 forum with a dozen or more threads in the forum. What are the odds we can keep the discussion of "The Illead" to one single thread in the "Great Books" forum? Not likely.

Also, I imagine we might have a discussion lasting several months for one particular great book and then that discussion might fizzle out for a year or two. And then another group of members might pick up the torch and start the discussion up again.

In such a situation should the new discussion use the old threads again? That could be chaotic and a bit unfair to the new people. They would be responding to comments made by members that might not even frequent BookTalk.org anymore.

The point I am making is that I don't see having too many rules and systems in place as being a good thing. Yes, we need a forum for these great books, but how members use the forum should be left up to them. If we make it too complicated people will move on and not want to go through the pain of learning the system.

I also agree that we should use an existing list of great books and NOT create our own. Whose opinion would we trust for creating a BookTalk.org List of Great Books? And then what do we do when opinions change over time? We would have chaos and a lot of work for me to do as the administrator.

Less work for me = good.

I have to say I really prefer using the Easton Press 100 Greatest Books Ever Written list. First of all the list is awesome and well-known by avid readers of the classics. But for selfish reasons I prefer we use this list because I am personally building up a library of Easton Press leather books from this collection. I have about 67 of the 100 and will one day buy the remaining 33 volumes.

And last but not least I have an idea that could help this new section. I have contact information for the parent company of Easton Press. I'd like to contact them and see if they might help promote this new project. Maybe they will donate some free leather books as awards for the people contributing to the new forum.

Check out the list...

http://www.listology.com/list/easton-pr ... er-written

[President Camacho]

I love to disagree... It's ingrained in my nature. That list could use some improvements and I think I'm beyond a list now, although I think BT should have its own list for a number of very important reasons - its OWN list. Scarlet letter? 20,000 leagues under the sea? MOBY DICK?!?!?!?!!? A FAREWELL TO ARMS!!!!!!! noooooooooooooooooooo!!!! The Jungle Books? Of Mice and Men??? Dracula... I dunno... weeeeeeak. Very weak. Leather or not, I wouldn't read any of these again (except jungle book because I haven't read it yet - does it come with crayons?). I would be ashamed to have them on my shelf if they weren't surrounded by countless other books. I HATE MOBY DICK. Why does anyone like this book???????

[joshuakrey]

I think this is a great idea. I would be willing to work with some ideas. At the age of just 22, I have made list of classic books I want to read before I die. I have looked at said Easton Press list as well as other list created online.

I also agree with Chris on using a set list like Easton Press's list. Using a set one would be good because this way we are using a list that has books that are widely known as classic or great books. While some people may not like Moby Dick or Of Mice and Men (How do you not like this book?), others will, and they are widely seen as classics. Books on this list have been used in different cultural ways especially in the United States such as movies, television, speeches and even other books.

[DickZ]

I would like to participate in this, and will watch for developments. Thanks, President Camacho, for suggesting it. There's a reason why these books have stood the test of time, even though not everybody will agree on every book on the list.

[lady of shallot]

You know that old saying "we get too soon old and too late smart?
Well that is where I am at. Looking over the list I realize I have read very few listed and own only about 1/3 of them.
The second list by President is more familiar. Had to laugh at the reference to Moby Dick which I have not read but I do wish I had a nickel for each time my husband has started quoting "whenever its a bleak November in my soul and I find myself following every funeral train" something like that. Why would you be ashamed to have these books on your book shelves? Do you think the intellectual police will be checking you out?

[jeff481]

I've always felt Solzhenitsyn doesn't get the attention he deserves on these sort of lists,but I've always been biased towards Russian literature. The Easton list is a nice start in my own opinion, although I can't honestly say I've read more than 50 of them ( the rest are in that jumbled mess I call my e-book folder, I just haven't, worked my way to them yet.) I'm looking forward to this section, if it can be made to work.