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The Resurrection Body--Heaven

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stahrwe

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Re: The Resurrection Body--Heaven

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lady of shallot wrote:Stahrwe:
Perhaps you should stick to singing. You seem better at that.
It's too bad that Stahrwe's personal relationship with Christ, precludes him having pleasant personal relationships with others. This comment above directed at Robert Tulip is the kind of snarky comment he always makes.

In fact I can not remember one instance of him ever saying anything nice to or about any other human being. (well he does revere G.K. Chesterton.)

But hasn't it been established that I am a hypocrit?

Some people think I dislike Robert. That is not true. I dislike what he does; taking quotes out of context, partial quotes, etc. The reference to him being better at singing is that he doesn't leave out parts of songs as he leaves out parts of my statements. In that context it is a statement of fact and not snarky.
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stahrwe

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Re: The Resurrection Body--Heaven

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Interbane wrote:
Stahrwe wrote:After I bested you in the challenge I posted that I was letting you off honoring your commitment but after reading your outburst I changed my mind and recinded the release.
Sometimes I wonder if you're a grown man. The challenge?! Sure, I'll believe everything you say. I'll become someone I'm not, because you won a challenge on a technicality that actually proved my point.
You missed my point. You can't be right 100% of the time, especially when you are defending the wrong position. I thought the little challenge you made was fun though it turned out to be much easier than it seemed at first and I was inclined to let it go as a fun interlude. However, when you abandoned the 'good sport' position and claimed foul, there was no longer any reason for me to let you off as you had excused yourself. My pardon no longer mattered.
interbane wrote:I would go on national television and yell it to the world that you won the challenge, if you'd simply understand that by doing so you'd proven my point. I'm sure you're not that dense, you're aware of what happened, and that the challenge was a farce to get you to reply. Here is how the conversation unfolded without the challenge to muddy the waters.

Stahrwe: "If grants were given for creation research, there would suddenly be a ton of interest."
Me: "Scientists perform every such crucial experiment they are able to think of. To prove my point, name one that you would perform."
Stahrwe: "Travel back in time and record events"
Me: "Point proven."

The point is Stahrwe, this idea of a worldwide conspiracy theory is fantastically unsupported. The only reason you believe it is to maintain the bulwark against cognitive dissonance. If you were faced with the reasonableness of scientific discoveries, your beliefs wouldn't be able to survive in their current form. You're too desperately attached to those beliefs, so your vision of science must suffer as a result. It is a false vision, part of your delusion. At some point in time if time machines appear and scientists neglect to travel back to the time of Jesus, then speak up. But something tells me that will be one of the very first trips humanity would make. Do you disagree?

Every experiment that could support creationism is being performed, or has been performed. The results are still the same. Evolution has hundreds of thousands or millions of pieces of supporting evidence. Creationism has one that pops up from time to time, but fails to pass peer review(you're more than welcome to critique the peer reviews). You need to understand these numbers. These pieces of evidence are not supporting evolution "ad populum". It's evidence! Evolution is a fact, and your denial becomes more untenable every time you make a mistake like proposing scientists travel back in time to observe an event that would support your beliefs.
I don't follow your logic on the simulated national broadcast. It seems you just punted that. As for scientific integrity, it turns out there are a growing number of groups who are concerned about it.
Uncommon Descent holds that…
Materialistic ideology has subverted the study of biological and cosmological origins so that the actual content of these sciences has become corrupted. The problem, therefore, is not merely that science is being used illegitimately to promote a materialistic worldview, but that this worldview is actively undermining scientific inquiry, leading to incorrect and unsupported conclusions about biological and cosmological origins. At the same time, intelligent design (ID) offers a promising scientific alternative to materialistic theories of biological and cosmological evolution — an alternative that is finding increasing theoretical and empirical support. Hence, ID needs to be vigorously developed as a scientific, intellectual, and cultural project.

http://www.uncommondescent.com/about-2/ ... about.html
The above is an Intelligent Design site and while I am not an ID person myself their interests and mine do parallel each other at some points.

Additionally, The Integrity in Science Project; http://www.cspinet.org/integrity/about.html, while not directly related to ID or creationism shows a major concern about the integrity of research.

As for the claim that 'every' creation experiment has been done, that is unlikely.

Here is a video pointing to a possible error in evolution. As you know I don't like videos and would not post it except that the corresponding article covers the video so you can review the material and address it without creating your own transcript.


DNA repair mechanisms reveal a contradiction in evolutionary theory
04/26/11


arn.org/blogs/index.php/literature/2011 ... _contradic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzh6Ct5cg1o
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Interbane

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Re: The Resurrection Body--Heaven

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You missed my point. You can't be right 100% of the time, especially when you are defending the wrong position.
It's possible to be right 100% of the time, but I sincerely doubt anyone on Earth is anywhere near that. I'm nowhere near that, and you're nowhere near that. My strengths are in philosophy and engineering. Since they are my strengths, I may overestimate my abilities and become unaware of mistakes, or not foresee them. The only medicine is intellectual humility.

My responses vary according to who I'm conversing with and what the subject is. In politics, I'm always disclaiming that the chances are good that I'm wrong. If I'm in a conversation with someone who is inflexible, such as yourself, I will become inflexible as well. This reaction is borne from my disgust of inflexibility. To truly understand the characteristic, you need to realize a person will defend an erroneous position until the end of time, and will take a mile if you give them an inch. I honestly believe fundamentalism is one of the greatest threats to our country, and I refuse to give a fundamentalist even an inch that isn't rightfully theirs. Is religion good for communities? Yes. Is there truth within the bible? Yes. I will remain inflexible, but it will be an honest inflexibility. I will hold my ground for good reasons, and based on logic. You have no such intellectual code.

Back to your sentence. Are you saying that you realize how impossible it is to perform an experiment that would support creationism? That any such experiment has already been performed?

In hindsight, I would rather the challenge have been something I could produce, since I cannot change my beliefs to believe something which is false. Perhaps donating to a certain charity. Then we could put it behind us and focus on the results of the challenge, the implications. That very specific point in the conversation that betrays a hole in your worldview.
DNA repair mechanisms reveal a contradiction in evolutionary theory
04/26/11
The evidence in support of evolution isn't some collection of ambiguous data as you presuppose. Here's a hypothetical; It tells a story, a very very long and intricate story, with a majority of the chapters written word for word without error. The plot is obvious. It cannot be mistaken. This is not my opinion. This is the truth. Objective reality has written this book with us as pawns by giving very specific results during various experiments. There is still bias, and still a lot of work to do, but at the same time there is no doubt what story the book is telling.

Articles like the one you posted pop up many times per year. In almost every case I can remember, it was a scientist pointing to a small gap somewhere and declaring the theory to be void without that gap filled in. Which is precisely the type of article you're posting. In all the cases I followed, the gap was filled eloquently and elegantly by another scientist in the field who had greater experience, or specialized in the gap in question.

But that doesn't really matter. Even if there were a large number of such gaps that are eternally unfilled, we already have enough of the book to say, conclusively, what the story is. This has been told to you before. Why do you insist on ignoring it? Is your faith that powerful that it blinds you to the truth?

I don't follow your logic on the simulated national broadcast. It seems you just punted that. As for scientific integrity, it turns out there are a growing number of groups who are concerned about it.
There should always be a system of checks and balances to eliminate human bias and error. There are already such checks and balances in place. Could they be improved? Sure! I hope they are, with all my heart. I wish for every ounce of human bias and error to be eradicated from science. The group to act in the function of oversight is most certainly not any religious group. The bias is palpable in any group that relies on faith for their truths, by the very fact that they have beliefs which contradict observation. You have faith that manna fell from the sky. Why? That is a bias, and all your beliefs with respect to the bible are a similar such bias.

I have no problems with such a group reviewing any scientific findings, except that their results are actually the ones that most often turn out to be biased and incorrect. By saying "certain groups" are concerned about the integrity of science, you're placing greater trust in groups that have even less intellectual integrity. Such a group is the optimal choice for a peer review committee, except that they are so biased against evolution that no evidence is able to persuade them! Such a group has no place in peer review, and I'm sure you'd agree with that.
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Re: The Resurrection Body--Heaven

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An excellent book on this topic is Heaven Revealed by Dr. Paul Enns. He clearly explains what the Bible says about heaven. Some in this forum seem to not accept the Bible as truth--but heaven itself is a biblical concept. Dr. Enns book says we will recognize and be reunited with loved ones in heaven.
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Re: The Resurrection Body--Heaven

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stahrwe wrote:
Robert Tulip wrote: Of course we have ultimate answers. Science gives ultimate answers. The coherence of scientific understanding means it is ultimately true. For example, there are absolute statements about the distance from earth to other bodies in the universe. The margin of error in these calculations is so small that it does not detract from their ultimate or absolute truth.
Don't be so dense. At least Interbane is honest. If you want we can initiate a discussion of measurement in a relativistic universe and I can show that one can never be sure where anything is, or how fast it is moving, or ...

I believe that your ego is affecting your objectivity. Perhaps you should stick to singing. You seem better at that.
Just again giving the rather amazing full context of Stahrwe's abusive rudeness. He argues that my belief that science gives ultimate answers is "dense". Instead, he would invite us to find ultimate answers in false dogmas that have been abundantly refuted by science.

In place of the beauty and coherence of the scientific understanding of the universe, Stahrwe would like to enslave everyone with lies. No wonder he objects to me ridiculing him.

Stahrwe accuses me of taking his statements out of context. I must admit, it is fun to mine his ridiculous posts for gems of idiocy and deception. As Interbane has said, it is a front row seat on the workings of delusion. I thought it was fairly obvious, when I used his statement above "one can never be sure where anything is" to ask if he had found his glasses yet, that this discussion is about entertainment. (For new readers, Stahrwe is blind but denies it, or something like that).

And I always thought my grasp on logic was far better than my singing...
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Re: The Resurrection Body--Heaven

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4 granted:
Some in this forum seem to not accept the Bible as truth-
This is 100% true. Most on this forum are not delusional. Looks like you make three who are.
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Re: The Resurrection Body--Heaven

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4granted wrote:An excellent book on this topic is Heaven Revealed by Dr. Paul Enns. He clearly explains what the Bible says about heaven. Some in this forum seem to not accept the Bible as truth--but heaven itself is a biblical concept. Dr. Enns book says we will recognize and be reunited with loved ones in heaven.
Some in this forum seem to not accept the Bible as truth--
And what truth does it contain? There's not one christian here among us that live strictly by biblical code it's impossible. The way the book is written your damned if you do and damned if you don't it's a no win situation. The only people here who are not questioning it are those that have been brainwashed into thinking its some solve all the worlds problems book and its anything but that! The lies, murder and other vile acts created in that book do little to support any resemblance of a life style any one would want to live. Xtians are under the distinct impression its their way or hell and your sadly, sadly mistaken friend. If this book and the christian faith were all its touted to be then the whole world would follow it. Sad part is the whole world is not following it. Why? Explain to me why out of the billions of people on the face of this planet why all of them do not buy into your fantasy world? If this is so perfect a faith and I stress the word FAITH why can't you sell it to the whole world? Bible truth yeah right, horses ass would be more like it!
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stahrwe

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Re: The Resurrection Body--Heaven

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Robert Tulip wrote:
stahrwe wrote:
Robert Tulip wrote: Of course we have ultimate answers. Science gives ultimate answers. The coherence of scientific understanding means it is ultimately true. For example, there are absolute statements about the distance from earth to other bodies in the universe. The margin of error in these calculations is so small that it does not detract from their ultimate or absolute truth.
Don't be so dense. At least Interbane is honest. If you want we can initiate a discussion of measurement in a relativistic universe and I can show that one can never be sure where anything is, or how fast it is moving, or ...

I believe that your ego is affecting your objectivity. Perhaps you should stick to singing. You seem better at that.
Just again giving the rather amazing full context of Stahrwe's abusive rudeness. He argues that my belief that science gives ultimate answers is "dense". Instead, he would invite us to find ultimate answers in false dogmas that have been abundantly refuted by science.

In place of the beauty and coherence of the scientific understanding of the universe, Stahrwe would like to enslave everyone with lies. No wonder he objects to me ridiculing him.

Stahrwe accuses me of taking his statements out of context. I must admit, it is fun to mine his ridiculous posts for gems of idiocy and deception. As Interbane has said, it is a front row seat on the workings of delusion. I thought it was fairly obvious, when I used his statement above "one can never be sure where anything is" to ask if he had found his glasses yet, that this discussion is about entertainment. (For new readers, Stahrwe is blind but denies it, or something like that).

And I always thought my grasp on logic was far better than my singing...
You did not answer the question about the boat. It is relevant as it directly relates to your claim of certainty.

And again, Robert you are taking what I said out of context. Your statement above is, "...Stahrwe is blind." I never said that. My words were, "What if I told you I was blind?"

Your inability to distinguish was and is is difficult to understand given that you have stated that you examine text for hidden meaning. I also stated that I have publicly asserted on hundreds of occasions that I, "once was blind". That is a true statement.

As for being rude, I dispute that. I have never been vulgar or abusive toward you or any BT member.
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Re: The Resurrection Body--Heaven

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rude |roōd|
adjective
1 offensively impolite or ill-mannered

Absolutely you are rude Stahrwe.
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stahrwe

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Re: The Resurrection Body--Heaven

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lady of shallot wrote:rude |roōd|
adjective
1 offensively impolite or ill-mannered

Absolutely you are rude Stahrwe.
Perhaps there are different standards for Christians and atheists as to what constitutes rudeness. I have never been vulgar, wished anyone ill, threatened violence to anyone, implied anyone on BT was retarded, etc.
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