A fear of death.

[lady of shallot]

Jozanny:

but lady, Roman Catholics do indeed understand the Protestant insistence with asserting the autonomy of the *I* in its dynamic to the divine

I was speaking of the fundamentalist view (not protestant which churches I am very familiar with) that the individual members have a "personal" relationship with Jesus Christ. I don't know any main stream Protestants or Catholics who even understand what this means. But then of course I do not know them all!

[Azrael]

To the OP, do a Google search on Thanatology.....all this religious crap they are throwing at you is just that "crap!" Also study a little about the Ancient Egyptians this will give you some good insight into it as well. No one at 16 should have this kind of fear live life man! Man has presented death in all kinds of personifications the Babble with its pale horse and so on........

[lady of shallot]

I am posting this here because Jnoir was raised Seventh Day Adventist and is suffering because of his beliefs now at variance with that belief system and his families'.

I bought my husband a book about Pitcairn Island and when we got home he was not interested as it deals with the island in current times and the theme is the sexual abuse of young girls.

Pitcairn islanders were converted to SDA in the 1890's. Their participation in such a belief system is not very active at this time although it is the only faith based activity on the island.
The current population is under 50 people and has been for some time. When off island authorities first heard of these accusations they interviewed all the females who had been born between certain dates and had grown up there. 100% of these girls (about 20) had been raped or molested, often by more than one man. Mostly around the age of 10 or 12 but also as young as 3 or 5.

The women of the island denied these accusations, saying it was just the Polynesian way for girls to become sexually active at a young age and that the girls "wanted" it. They also said they had had their first sexual encounters at about the same ages.

This book presents an interesting moral dilemma. The small community can not really exist without men to operate the long boats, which is their only way of connecting physically with the outside world. So is that why the women condoned this behavior? Why would so many men out of a relatively small number be rapists? Is every isolated small community this way?

Finally why would so many people (over time) want to live in such a confined space (2 miles square) with difficult access to the outside world. Although many of them do emigrate and also travel back and forth to New Zealand, Australia and even England, Europe.

I am not saying that the religious beliefs of these people in any way caused the sexual dynamic there. In fact it well could have always been present. However it did not stop it either.

[Jozanny]

Jozanny:

but lady, Roman Catholics do indeed understand the Protestant insistence with asserting the autonomy of the *I* in its dynamic to the divine

I was speaking of the fundamentalist view (not protestant which churches I am very familiar with) that the individual members have a "personal" relationship with Jesus Christ. I don't know any main stream Protestants or Catholics who even understand what this means. But then of course I do not know them all!

What does it mean?

[lady of shallot]

Jozanny:

What does it mean?

According to our resident fundies: Stahrwe and Dawn, only people who have a "personal relationship" with Jesus and God are really Christians.

Beats me what that means. Do you have a personal relationship with someone you can not see? Maybe they see them and hear them. Did you ever see the movie Harvey with James Stewart? He had a personal relationship with a big white rabbit named Harvey. But only he could see him and hear him. Of course the character was an alcoholic.

[Jozanny]

Okay. I ask for tolerance if I am occasionally mercurial in my posts. It isn't so much about Christianity or Christian sects. I live online too much, as I am less and less matriculated, and I am on the rebound over getting banned without having technically flamed a site owner, not that even this is the real problem. An analogy might be that I want a tailor to assist me with a new suit, a perfect suit for a writer who was nearly on her feet as a freelancer in 04, and in 05 had to field a series of disasters, which, though over, she fears may have permanently knocked her off her game, in a more subtle fear of mortal coils than the OP might have expressed.

I am trying to be a good girl though-- spinster actually. !

[stahrwe]

Jozanny:

but lady, Roman Catholics do indeed understand the Protestant insistence with asserting the autonomy of the *I* in its dynamic to the divine

I was speaking of the fundamentalist view (not protestant which churches I am very familiar with) that the individual members have a "personal" relationship with Jesus Christ. I don't know any main stream Protestants or Catholics who even understand what this means. But then of course I do not know them all!

One would think that to know someone and enjoy them implies a personal relationship. Is it that unexpected that you cannot understand what you do not experience. You don't believe in God so how can you understand what it means to know God and enjoy Him?

Q. What is the chief end of man?
A. Man's chief end is to know God, and to enjoy him forever.

Wikipedia article on Westminster shorter catechism

[stahrwe]

Jozanny:

What does it mean?

According to our resident fundies: Stahrwe and Dawn, only people who have a "personal relationship" with Jesus and God are really Christians.

Beats me what that means. Do you have a personal relationship with someone you can not see? Maybe they see them and hear them. Did you ever see the movie Harvey with James Stewart? He had a personal relationship with a big white rabbit named Harvey. But only he could see him and hear him. Of course the character was an alcoholic.

Nice try but not very imaginative. Harvey was not real so it was not possible to have a personal relationship with him.

[lady of shallot]

Stahrwe:

One would think that to know someone and enjoy them implies a personal relationship. Is it that unexpected that you cannot understand what you do not experience. You don't believe in God so how can you understand what it means to know God and enjoy Him?
I was not speaking of myself but of the Catholic and Protestant people I know.

Jozanny:

Nice try but not very imaginative. Harvey was not real so it was not possible to have a personal relationship with him.

Well Harvey was real to Elwood P. Dowd (I think that is his name) in much the same way that Jesus and God are "real" to Christians. Difference being that Stahrwe and Dawn claim to have a "personal" relationship with them, but other Christians do not, in fact they do not know what that even means but as I said I do not know every person of faith in the world, only really well those I am related to.

[Mr. P]

I'll not repeat any of the excellent commentary posted since you first shared your experiences. Al lI will add is my personal notes.

I figured out there was no god in my last year of Catholic shcool. I went 12 years. I always had my doubts about god and all the hullabaloo with religious belief. It never really made sense to me.

I too was deathly afraid of death. But when I finally shed my tentative beliefs in god and the afterlife, it was then that I also shed my fear of death. It helped me, not hindered.

Mr. P.