prayer

[lady of shallot]

Harry Marks:

Likewise we sometimes need things from others: information, feedback, validation, time, attention, etc. It is important not only to ask but to be clear we have no right to demand.

Well of course this is just how life goes around. But I think of supplicant in the way my on-line dictionary defines it.

supplicate |ˈsəpliˌkāt|
verb [ intrans. ]
ask or beg for something earnestly or humbly : [with infinitive ] the plutocracy supplicated to be made peers.

Parenting is difficult for all of us and of course children are individuals who vary greatly in the ease with which they are parented.

I did not know you were a Christian. I have nothing against Christians (although an atheist myself) all of my family are Christians. Someday maybe someone will do a psychological study of individuals who are atheists and those who believe. I think it has more to do with individual differences in ones psyche than even in education, training, exposure etc.

[Murrill]

Prayer has no effect other than placebo. It's supernatural nonsense. Studies confirm this.[

I do not pray, but I do meditate. I'm not sure that they are so dissimilar, and you may be right about the "placebo" effect. But there very gesture of meditation, prefaced with at least some modicum of willingness on my part to receive, changes me. It is then that I can release whatever separates me from my spirit--the anger, the depression, the confusion. That is when I can shed what makes me miserable and unpleasant, and I can locate my authentic self.
I am a non-theist. I do not entertain nonsensical notions that an interventionist diety will grant my wishes or send me more money to pay bills or heal my illness. What I seek is an internal shift that clarifies my mental and emotional state so I can better adapt. I am not seeking resolution from an external source. I believe that I can find those resources within, although they are more accessible to me as I nurture and practice a spiritual life.

[lady of shallot]

I have experienced great stress in my life. A result of this stress was the feeling that I needed to be constantly alert and although meditating was not anything I knew about then, I could not also have imagined being "free" to do so. Nor did it ever occur to me to pray.

I have also experienced anger, depression and confusion. I would have thought meditation was an exercise in futility. I did seek counseling. I never understand expressions like "spirit" "soul" I always feel totally integrated, not "separated" in any part. Aging has been very kind to me (well not my looks) as the stresses and strains of my earlier life are absent so my thoughts can be occupied with what ever I feel free to think about and I am rarely unhappy about anything. Let me add that I realize I will sicken and maybe not live in comfort before I check out completely, so I just like to enjoy these months or years as I can.

[Murrill]

I would have thought meditation was an exercise in futility. I did seek counseling. I never understand expressions like "spirit" "soul" I always feel totally integrated, not "separated" in any part.

I can be prone to becoming...."frazzled," I guess. Meditation helps me to destress, to find my center and my balance. I also find that I age I am less concerned with things that once devastated me. I think of the brief few minutes I take several times a day as meditation, although I usually treat myself to 20-30 minutes at night. I have not been active in yoga for some time, but when I have it includes some meditative features. I enjoy your posts, BTW, and I liked your share about being integrated and comfortable with yourself.

[Chris OConnor]

Why would one long for something that is unachievable?

You're falling out of an airplane and you realize you forgot your parachute. You long for a parachute, yet you understand that a parachute will not materialize out of thin air. Yet, oddly you still long for one.

Your wife and best friend dies of cancer in your arms. For the balance of your life you long for her in so many ways, yet you are abundantly aware that no matter how much you long for her she is gone forever.

Yes, people long for many things that are completely unachievable.

[Chris OConnor]

Prayer is one of the most senseless, selfish and ridiculous acts a human being can take. Seeing people pray fills me with embarrassment for them and for our species. I literally feel flushed in the face with embarrassment when I see grown adults talking to imaginary beings asking for this or that.

Prayer causes no effect, as has been repeatedly demonstrated scientifically, but still lazy people opt to take the easy route and pretend they are doing someone, or themselves, some good by communicating with their deity. Instead of actually helping the person that they are praying for they ask a non-existent being to help them. This is almost funny. Almost, but not actually. It would be funny if this selfish and lazy act wasn't, by virtue of a lack of action, causing the intended beneficiary harm.

I suggest you Google "needs your prayers" to see thousands and thousands of calls for useless prayers. Instead of asking these same people to donate money, time, love or support, these fools are telling their audience to close their eyes and just think about doing something. Don't actually do something. Just think about it.

And if you're of the mindset to claim that prayer is a compliment, not a substitute, for real action, I say you're not being honest with yourself. If prayer doesn't do a damn thing, and we all know it doesn't, why encourage people to think it does? Why lie to them? Isn't a certain percentage of people going to pray instead of taking action? If so then prayer causes harm. So stop harming people. Stop praying and start doing shit.

[Dexter]

I suggest you Google "needs your prayers" to see thousands and thousands of calls for useless prayers. Instead of asking these same people to donate money, time, love or support, these fools are telling their audience to close their eyes and just think about doing something. Don't actually do something. Just think about it.

It is pretty ridiculous, I can only believe that people don't even think about it when they say something like "please send your prayers" just like it doesn't occur to most people to question what they've been told since childhood. It can be interpreted as "please console me" or in some cases "please give me some attention" for a situation that they're facing.

How can you believe that a God will answer some prayers but let so many innocents suffer? Either he doesn't intervene, or he's a petty tyrant playing games. Which is it?

[lady of shallot]

Chris:

You're falling out of an airplane and you realize you forgot your parachute. You long for a parachute, yet you understand that a parachute will not materialize out of thin air. Yet, oddly you still long for one.

Your wife and best friend dies of cancer in your arms. For the balance of your life you long for her in so many ways, yet you are abundantly aware that no matter how much you long for her she is gone forever.

Yes, people long for many things that are completely unachievable.

Maybe this is a matter of semantics. For instance I sometimes ruminate on words I have said to others that I deeply regret and wish I could recall. I also once had a deep disappointment in love that is actually the worst thing that ever happened to me. Am I sorry to have lost that love and do I regret the pain and suffering I felt? You bet. But to me longings bespeaks the hope that something can still be changed when the outcome has been quite different, than that wished for.

In your two examples, Chris, while I understand the terrible losses, I would not express it in terms of longing.

[Harry Marks]

supplicate |ˈsəpliˌkāt|
verb [ intrans. ]
ask or beg for something earnestly or humbly :

So is there something wrong with asking humbly for something? I suspect you are focusing on "beg".
I rather like the term "implore".

In Northern European and American society, we are always urged to "get on with it" and not waste time with anything that doesn't achieve something. As a result we lose track of some pretty basic emotional processes, such as grieving. Furthermore, we are expected to always be in control, and never to be vulnerable. Frankly it approaches an Asperger's society, sometimes.

My students claim I am just echoing Dr. Phil. I have actually only seen him one time in my life. But this stuff is just common sense - unless you were part of a home where it wasn't. An emotional collection of thoughts and feelings, processing a stressful day without the stress of having to figure out what to do, these are just simple living. You wouldn't think of giving up sleep just because no one can demonstrate how it helps you. Why would someone have trouble with dwelling (temporarily) in their longing?

Prayer or meditation feel pretty natural, actually, although praying aloud in public requires learning a certain "willing suspension of embarrassment." I don't try to talk people into it, or into meditation, but it strikes me as weird to go around being bothered by people who pray, just because it doesn't cause supernatural intervention.

[Robert Tulip]

Prayer is a way to focus collective intentions. It depends what you pray for. I would be happy to pray in church for people to abandon their delusions and accept a scientific account of reality. But this would not reflect the earnest wishes of most Christians, and might get me kicked out the door. Often prayer is just a way of reinforcing collective psychosis, as in petitions for intervention of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Miracles are not possible, so prayers that God will act contrary to the laws of physics only reinforce a very delusory mindset.