A fear of death.

[Chris OConnor]

Hi Jnoir,

So you're one of those "thinkers" I see. I have to congratulate you for having the courage to even pick up books that challenge your faith. That shows personal strength and character. And at 16-years old you're doing just fine. Don't let anyone convince you that challenging beliefs is wrong. If there is a God and that God is indeed a good God then God would be proud of you for using the brain he gave you for it's intended purpose.

I'm aware of how the Jehovah's Witnesses shun those that leave the church or even exhibit an interest in close associations with worldly people. How have you held up with your parents being JW's? I can only imagine there have been some difficult times.

[Jnoir]

Hi Jnoir,

So you're one of those "thinkers" I see. I have to congratulate you for having the courage to even pick up books that challenge your faith. That shows personal strength and character. And at 16-years old you're doing just fine. Don't let anyone convince you that challenging beliefs is wrong. If there is a God and that God is indeed a good God then God would be proud of you for using the brain he gave you for it's intended purpose.

I'm aware of how the Jehovah's Witnesses shun those that leave the church or even exhibit an interest in close associations with worldly people. How have you held up with your parents being JW's? I can only imagine there have been some difficult times.

I have not even brought it up, and i don't ever plan to. It would not end well if i did, see to them what they believe is not just faith, it is fact. If i did talk about it, i know what they would say, something along the lines of "the devil's got me" followed by many extra visits
to our local kingdom hall. And also i see the comfort their faith brings them, there is not a doubt in their mind that they are destined for salvation, and i don't want them to have to worry about me not getting there with them.

[Jnoir]

Many people have been PMing me and id like to thank all of you. Most, if not all, are telling me i should be reading more from both sides, and have recommended books from pro-religion authors. I have read the bible, and i thought that was enough representation from the "pro Jesus" argument, but i will try others. Though i'm not sure if human authors can reassure me of what the bible ( which is suppose to be god's word) could not. Thank you for your help. I would also like to thank everyone who have offered help from a pro-atheist stand point, it has been very helpful.

[hesse]

Welcome J, and congratulations on embarking on this journey. I was fully 2 years older than you when I became aware enough to confront my fear of death, to stop clinging to life like a barnacle on a rock, and allow myself to float freely in the river of life.

I too came from a very religious family but the teachings they spoke of never really resonated with me....

I have 2 caveats for your journey: The path is long and arduous, and you must choose your advisers wisely, as the Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao...

For me the Hagakure, The Way of the Samurai, speaks to me with clarity. I have learned to meditate on the most hideous of deaths, ultimately becoming free from fear, and furthermore free from choice.

This from the 1st chapter:

"We all want to live. And in large part we make our logic according to what we like. But not having attained our aim and countinuing to live is cowardice. This is a thin and dangerous line. To die without gaining one's aim is a dog's death and fanaticism. But there is no shame in this. This is the substance of the Way of the Samurai. If by setting one's heart right every morning and evening, one is able to live as though his body were already dead, he gains the freedom in the Way. His whole life will be without blame, and he will suceed in his calling."

[stahrwe]

Jnoir

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

1Jn 4:18

[lady of shallot]

Quote:

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

See here once again is that religious message. The human being is always coming up short and less than worthy. And for what? Someone else's idea of the truth of a myth.

[stahrwe]

Quote:

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

See here once again is that religious message. The human being is always coming up short and less than worthy. And for what? Someone else's idea of the truth of a myth.

You are wrong. True man often comes up short, but he is worthy by virtue of God's love.

[lady of shallot]

I am right. You are wrong to be a grown man and believe so wholeheartedly such foolishness. Man is not anything in relation to God because there is no God. What are you in relation to Festifus?

[johnson1010]

Joir:
Though i'm not sure if human authors can reassure me of what the bible ( which is suppose to be god's word) could not. Thank you for your help. I would also like to thank everyone who have offered help from a pro-atheist stand point, it has been very helpful.

You are going to hear the argument that the bible doesn't make sense because you aren't wise enough to decode the amazing message within. or that you aren't reading the bible "in the spirit of the holy ghost." Or that the insane barbarism contained in the book can only be understood when in context of everything else in the book, so just press onward and try to believe until you actually do believe.

That is what you will find in those books. It's called apologetics. They defend their chosen beliefs without evidence, and against all evidence to the contrary no matter how wrong they can be demonstrated to be, whether that be with logic, reasoning, every day experience, or in-arguable scientific fact.


It is an encouragement for you to fake it until you make it. If you just keep TRYING to rationalize all the nonsense, bigotry and lies, eventually you will have convinced YOURSELF that you were wrong all along, and that yes, it does make sense.

The truth is, reading the bible "in the spirit of the holy ghost" or "in the right context" is code for "believe it before you read it". In other words, the only context which makes what's in there justifiable is to already believe everything you are about to read is incontrovertably true. Which is why, in my opinion, the best way to become an atheist is to read the bible.

your friends and relatives are going to try to blackmail you into believing like they do. They are going to pressure you socially, and announce that you will spend all eternity burning in hell for your insufferable arrogance. They react so strongly because you give voice to the fear that gnaws at the base of their spine telling them that they are living a fairy tale. They can't sit by and watch you drop those beliefs.

you'll notice, time and again, threats of hellfire. Threats. The last resort of someone with no argument, and an overly emotional attachment to their argument.

[Dawn]

You are going to hear ... so just press onward and try to believe until you actually do believe.
your friends and relatives are going to try to blackmail you into believing like they do.
They are going to pressure you socially, and announce that you will spend all eternity burning in hell for your insufferable arrogance

Are you a prophet? or the son of a prophet?
Or are you suggesting jnoir should cast caution to the wind and ignore everyone who has a vested interest in jnoir's life, and go with some anonymous folks at BT or some best-selling skeptics whose goal is to gain a following, without a care for jnoir's quality of life here or later. Yes, parents can be misled, but so can popular authors and their followers. Plugging your ears to those who know and love you best is not sufficient advice...

That is what you will find in those books....

Which ones were you referring to?

In my opinion, the best way to become an atheist is to read the bible.

Is this the way you did it?
I'd suggest a better way would be to read what other people say about the Bible.

. They react so strongly because you give voice to the fear that gnaws at the base of their spine telling them that they are living a fairy tale.

This is an interesting theory. Has it been your experience?

you'll notice, time and again, threats of hellfire. Threats. The last resort of someone with no argument, and an overly emotional attachment to their argument.

Did you mom never tell you not to touch the stove or you'd get burned? Or did she just let you find out for yourself?