Are You Spiritual?

[ant]

I think an atheist who says they are spiritual is hijacking the word in a hypocritical sort of way.

I think it would be more appropriate for the atheist to call himself "meditative" instead of spiritual.
That would be much more honest.

[youkrst]

I think an atheist who says they are spiritual is hijacking the word in a hypocritical sort of way.

or perhaps it is the church or rather religious bigots or ill informed or inexperienced in the various traditions who have hijacked the word spiritual and thereby stolen a sense of value from "ordinary folk" who can put their own language to an experience of the transcendant and dont need the particular dialect of a particular tradition.

christianity has it "i and the father are one"
hinduism has it "tat tvam asi"
some guy down the street has it "i feel marvellously alive today"

it's all just various ways of description

one guitarist will say "wow, what a wicked distortion tone"
whereas an engineer might say "oh, he's got just the right amount of power amp saturation there, and the slight tweak at 2.5k is making it magic, the harmonic transients are perfect"
then the guitarist could respond "yeah, that's what i said"
the engineer responds "yes, but i said it more succinctly"
the guitarist responds "it's my frickin amp, and i'm taking it home!"
ah, musicians, some of them are touchier than religious folk.
what are you talkin' about tone IS a religion!

[ant]

"after all, we are made of stardust"

So what?

The materialistic/atheistic view is that all matter is mindless and essentially purposeless
We are all made of atoms as well. So is a rock, and a slug, and fungi, and a fish, and a mule, and a mule's dung pile
Saying that we are star stuff sounds pretty and cosmic but it amount to nothing spiritual in the sense of the word.

Spiritual -
"Adjective
Of, relating to, or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.

The human spirit as opposed to MATERIAL things.

There's seems to be an incorporeal need here that totally contradicts the corporeal only reality of the atheist.
So he reaches for something that looks and sounds pretty but in essence is made of the same thing as a pig or a roach.
What a blizzard of a snow job.

[ant]

"after all, we are made of stardust"

So what?

The materialistic/atheistic view is that all matter is mindless and essentially purposeless
We are all made of atoms as well. So is a rock, and a slug, and fungi, and a fish, and a mule, and a mule's dung pile
Saying that we are star stuff sounds pretty and cosmic but it amount to nothing spiritual in the sense of the word.

Spiritual -
"Adjective
Of, relating to, or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.

The human spirit as opposed to MATERIAL things.

There's seems to be an incorporeal need here that totally contradicts the corporeal only reality of the atheist.
So he reaches for something that looks and sounds pretty but in essence is made of the same thing as a pig or a roach.
What a blizzard of a snow job.

[youkrst]

ant it sounds like you resent the atheists encroaching on the holy domain of the theists

they might steal the word spiritual back again

[ant]

I hate to say it but I believe it's true.

Yeah, you're sort of a belief slut, the more ridiculous it is, the more you're apt to believe it!

We agree that there is no such thing as a spiritual atheist, right?
I mean, come on, that's absurd. It's also oxymoronic.

It's clever to try and redefine the word to help an atheist's closet need for spirituality, but come on, really??

[Interbane]

We agree that there is no such thing as a spiritual atheist, right?
I mean, come on, that's absurd. It's also oxymoronic.

I know of a few atheists who believe in the afterlife and metaphysical/spiritual. They aren't mutually exclusive.

[youkrst]

to help an atheist's closet need for spirituality

ATHEIST SPIRITUALITY! there, i said it.

ant hates it, but it's coming to a town near you sooner than you can say JESUS!

[Dexter]

There's seems to be an incorporeal need here that totally contradicts the corporeal only reality of the atheist.
So he reaches for something that looks and sounds pretty but in essence is made of the same thing as a pig or a roach.
What a blizzard of a snow job.

Uh oh, it's the meaningless life challenge again!

I repeat, what is the content of your beliefs that provides you with a meaningful life in this world?

So far, you have revealed your belief that science doesn't have all the answers (everyone else also agrees with this position, despite your use of the strawman argument). And there might be a Vague, Generic Deity behind it all. How does that provide the foundation for meaning, objective morality, truth, love, etc.? All those things that those silly and sorry atheists lack? Is there an afterlife? Did the deity provide you with morals?

Or again, is there just a bunch of stuff you don't know? And somehow that provides meaning. Why can't my ignorance also provide meaning? Not all religions can be true, do they all provide meaning?

Help a poor atheist out. We are adrift in the meaningless void.

I don't expect you'll try to answer. You'll just keep saying that atheist certainty isn't justified.

[ant]

Okay, Starchild. Let's go over some fundamentals:

I'll keep it simple for us all:

http://www.pressconnects.com/article/20 ... tars-made-

Stars are enormous reactors powered by a process called nuclear fusion, which occurs within their core. Under intense heat and pressure, small atoms are cooked into larger atoms. The result of this process, the forming of heavier elements from lighter elements, is the release of a massive amount of energy. It is the release of this energy that sustains the star, opposing the strong inward force of gravity.

The mass of our Sun is approximately
71 percent hydrogen and 27 percent helium

What are the elements of the human body?

http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthings ... ements.htm

The human body:


[quote the mass of the human body is made up of just six elements: oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus.

Oxygen (65%)
Carbon (18%)
Hydrogen (10%)
Nitrogen (3%)
Calcium (1.5%)
Phosphorus (1.0%)
Potassium (0.35%)
Sulfur (0.25%)
Sodium (0.15%)
Magnesium (0.05%)
Copper, Zinc, Selenium, Molybdenum, Fluorine, Chlorine, Iodine, Manganese, Cobalt, Iron (0.70%)
Lithium, Strontium, Aluminum, Silicon, Lead, Vanadium, Arsenic, Bromine (trace amounts)[/quote]

Now, you wrote this:

There's a long tradition among mystics, meditators, etc. of achieving a feeling or sense of oneness with the universe and transcending the sense of self (not something I can speak to first-hand I'm afraid). Obviously it has been interpreted in a religious or quasi-religious way, but it could also be thought of in purely scientific terms -- after all, we are made of stardust

You've mentioned a "sense of oneness with the universe and transcending the sense of self "and that this could also be thought of scientifically because, we are made of stardust.

Your comparison to stardust, from a scientific perspective, is not as accurate as if you'd compare yourself to a chimpanzee here on earth. And you wouldn't have to transcend your pure material self with delusion.

http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2 ... enced.html

Ever since researchers sequenced the chimp genome in 2005, they have known that humans share about 99% of our DNA with chimpanzees, making them our closest living relatives. But there are actually two species of apes that are this closely related to humans: bonobos (Pan paniscus) and the common chimpanzee (Pan troglodytes)

Let's be scientific about this and not metaphysical because it suites your transcendent needs.
You are more "at one" with a Pan Troglodyte than you are with alpha centauri.
You are not a nuclear fusion reactor. You are not 71% hydrogen and 27% helium.
You will not one day collapse with the potential to become a black hole.
Not even close.

You are more "at one" with a chimps DNA.
Recent findings are that even our behavior is similar to that of our cousin, the chimp.

Why all the self glorification here by inferring you are stardust? You are more like a chimp.
A chimp is here, on earth. Not up in the sky shinning brightly over you. It aint as bright and shinny, but it's closer to being one with you than I star when you turn on your logical, scientific mind. There is no need to meditate from the terrestrial to the etraterrestrial, unless of course you want to shamelessly achieve some covert religiosity, which is to say, you are connecting with something not of this earth.

The psychology here is clear: You are mad at a god that you can not see and does not interact with you.
Similar to the anger a child has toward an absent parent, you deny the offending parent your attention and look for something you can see - that will NOT fail you, that you can point to and shout "There He is! I can see him! We are TOGETHER! The way it should be!!"

At your core,you aren't really logic driven. You are religiously driven because that is how you feel most complete.
But you are angry about it all and are living a contradiction despite yourself.

To meditate is to reflect or contemplate on something, or to "empty the mind" and focus on one thing. By the way, It can also mean "prayerful":

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/meditate

Why not reflect on a chimp? You are closer to them than a star.
I suspect it's because "star" sounds more godlike.

Stop hijacking words.
Stop camouflaging your desire to connect to a god.., ANY GOD.
You are religiously needy. Don't tell us you just aren't wired that way, because you are.