Hmmm....

[Penelope]

Ooooh - Thomas Hood....that is a delightful post!!!

Sun - Day - The Light

Moon - Day - The Waters (symbolic of the emotions?)

We are all singing the same song - but from different Songsheets.

And 'silly us' we are arguing about the songsheets.....instead of delighting in the the song......

I say......bugger the songsheet....Sing Out.

[Thomas Hood]

Ooooh - Thomas Hood....that is a delightful post!!!

Sun - Day - The Light

Moon - Day - The Waters (symbolic of the emotions?)

We are all singing the same song - but from different Songsheets.

And 'silly us' we are arguing about the songsheets.....instead of delighting in the the song......

I say......bugger the songsheet....Sing Out.

Yes, let's sing Frankie and Johnny:

Frankie and Johnny Were lovers,
O lordy how they could love
They swore to be true to each other,
As true as the stars above, . . .

Biblical cosmology was astrological. Such a notion sticks in the throats of scientists, theologians, and especially fundamentalist Christians. A plague on all their houses, I say. The universe peoples, and I'm grateful.

Tom

Oh, about the moon. It controls tides, you know. All quite literal.

[Penelope]

Ah, but Thomas Hood, our Robert is a Scientist who gives more than a nod to astrology....and has suffered demeaning comments which I have seen for myself on other websites than this.

Hard for him I suspect!

How can we support him?

Let's sing:-

Words of Love
Softly spoken like clouds above...
Drift away.....what can we say,
That isn't in the way we act?
That will carry through the years intact,
I'm looking forward to looking back
From further on down the track
Together....in fact....forever...my love.....

Silly love songs eh? Well, what's wrong with that?

[Thomas Hood]

Ah, but Thomas Hood, our Robert is a Scientist who gives more than a nod to astrology....and has suffered demeaning comments which I have seen for myself on other websites than this.

Hard for him I suspect!

How can we support him?

Let's sing:-

Words of Love
Softly spoken like clouds above...
Drift away.....what can we say,
That isn't in the way we act?
That will carry through the years intact,
I'm looking forward to looking back
From further on down the track
Together....in fact....forever...my love.....

Silly love songs eh? Well, what's wrong with that?

Well, I am sorry that Robert has been the target of demeaning comments. To support your song I will contribute a Druid blessing:

Above the thunder in the clouds
The light is pure, the stars are bright.
Above the rancor of the crowds
May Robert hold the height.

Tom

[Penelope]

Robert can comfort himself with the thought that Galileo suffered more than demeaning comments......for saying that the earth orbited the sun and not the other way around. Gallileo was sensible enough to retract....knowing that, 'Truth is the Daughter of Time'.



some silence...but then upspake...a vessel of a more ungainly make

What? Did the hand then of the potter shake????



Who is the potter? And Who the Pot?

...and that is relevant to Robert's last post.

[Mr. P]

Richard Dawkins has decisively refuted the pre-modern method of pietism and its silly ideas such as biblical inerrancy, but this superficial debate does not touch on what people mean by belief in God.

Has Dawkins done this, Robert? I doubt it. Scientist types are just as bad as conventional religionists in ignoring the empirical and conceptual context of scripture -- anybody's. God invented light on the the first day of the week, Sun-day. He separated the waters on Moon-day. I think we have a pattern here. If scientist/atheists or theologians would actually look at texts, there might be a possibility of world harmony. Otherwise, one fantasy is as arbitrary as another.

Tom

But since the days of the week were named for Norse, Greek or Roman gods and or the celestial bodies (Sun, Moon, Planets), what does scripture have to do with any of this?

[Thomas Hood]

But since the days of the week were named for Norse, Greek or Roman gods and or the celestial bodies (Sun, Moon, Planets), what does scripture have to do with any of this?

Mr. P, the ancient Hebrews lifted the attributes of the days of the week from non-Hebrew sources, probably ancient Indo-Europeans:

The Genesis Account:

Day Creation
1 Light
2 Separation of waters
3 Dry land and plants (fuel)
4 The lights of heaven for signs and seasons (communication)
5 fish and fowl (the active animals)
6 Land animals and man: sexuality is specifically enjoined.
7 Rest

Planet-Days of the Non-Hebrew Week:

Day Planet Rulership
1 Sun Light
2 Moon Water
3 Mars Fire
4 Mercury Communication
5 Jupiter Vitality
6 Venus Sex
7 Saturn Inactivity

As a teenager I observed how the days of the week in Genesis were base on Indo-European culture, and thought I had discovered some deep, dark secret, which I could tell no one. Nothing of the sort. Robert Graves had already made the observation in his White Goddess, and undoubtedly thousands of others had done the same, but for almost two thousand years to say it would be to invite being burned at the stake.

Tom

P.S. This software messed up my neat tables.

[shawnrohrbach]

I think what is missing here is the essential reality of religeon and that these faith belief systems are not based on historical fact; rather on faith. The sad part is the condemnation of others that typically follows. This, however, is not reserved to those who might profess to have this faith in a God or a salvation story. My scientist friends are equally unforgiving and bigotted (in their conviction there is no god) and this only fuels the hatred on either side. I studied with the Benedictine monks in British Columbia and found among them a quiet, non-judgemental faith they used to propel themselves and no one else. It is possible to have this faith, however one comes by it, and actually live the principles such as, say Christian love. I am deeply saddened by any story where religeon was used to hurt another person. If anyone here does not have this faith, you will never be turned away, condemend or critisized by me. I only hope for your happiness. As for me, and I have this faith and it has come to me after many decades of severe trial. I rarely express this faith, and this may be the last time I ever contribute something of this nature, only because it is so intensely personal and I have zero desire to force it on anyone else. I could only begin to explain through Thomas Aquinas' Metaphysics. The discussion here is healthy and I only hope it never becomes angry and personal.

[Mr. P]

But since the days of the week were named for Norse, Greek or Roman gods and or the celestial bodies (Sun, Moon, Planets), what does scripture have to do with any of this?

As a teenager I observed how the days of the week in Genesis were base on Indo-European culture, and thought I had discovered some deep, dark secret, which I could tell no one. Nothing of the sort. Robert Graves had already made the observation in his White Goddess, and undoubtedly thousands of others had done the same, but for almost two thousand years to say it would be to invite being burned at the stake.

Tom

But what is that secret? I cannot tell what you are getting at here, aside from the fact that the Hebrews copied the naming patterns, and thus there is a correlation. Nothing 'deep' as I see it. I possibly could be missing your point though.

Mr. P.

[Thomas Hood]

But what is that secret? I cannot tell what you are getting at here, aside from the fact that the Hebrews copied the naming patterns, and thus there is a correlation. Nothing 'deep' as I see it. I possibly could be missing your point though.

Open your Bible to the first page, Mr. P, and I will try to explain.

First, there are no "naming patterns." Hebrew and Arabic name the days by number: the first day (Day One); the second day (Day Two); etc. The secret is that what God did on each day corresponds exactly to the non-Hebrew astrological meanings of the planets. For example, on Venus's day (Friday) God created sex. Big surprise, yes? Blessed be the Almighty. And after wearing Himself out on Venus's day God rested on Saturn's day (Saturday), Saturn being especially slow in its progress through the heavens. Same for the other days. What I am getting at is that the Bible is systematically misread. The creation/evolution controversy is irrelevant to the text.

Tom