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The Bible's Buried Secrets

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Frank 013
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Re: The Bible's Buried Secrets

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Dawn
Careful Frank about the fossilization claim:

Quote:
The fact that something is fossilized does not mean that it is millions of years old. In fact, scientists know that fossilization can take place rather rapidly under the right conditions; quick burial, the right amounts of water, and suitable minerals.

Conditions for fossilization were ideal during the Flood. Researchers have discovered that bones, wood and other objects can fossilize in relatively short periods of time (e.g., 5 to100 years), if the conditions are right. Fossilization does not take millions, or even thousands, of years.

All is not as certain as you asssume. Uncertainty might be a good stance about now...
That would be a good point Dawn… except that "rapid fossilization" has been debunked as fantasy, its a YEC claim that is not supported by current findings.

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Interbane

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Re: The Bible's Buried Secrets

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You admit above it is an excellent experiment. I presume that means that you now will believe everything I tell you. Is that correct?*
No, but I would honor it if you honored my intent. I have a list of about two dozen disclaimers that should not need to be spoken. For example, the experiment must be told to me via text, on this forum. If you whisper it to your computer screen, it won't reach me. I'd also rather you place it using black text on a white background. The experiment shouldn't require everyone on Earth to perform. It also shouldn't require that everyone on Earth be dead. It also shouldn't require any other ridiculous factor that I've failed to address.

What you think is clever is precisely the reason people ignore you or are rude to you. Should the experiment be possible? Yes, at least within the next few years. Do I need to make a disclaimer about this, and all other potential errors of omission? No, my intent covers them all. If there's an omitted condition you're curious about, just ask.

Something tells me you had no choice. You couldn't think of a possible experiment that would support your beliefs. The only one you could come up with is currently impossible. Nothing else matters. It doesn't matter that other experiments were contingent upon not-yet released technologies. There is no experiment that can support your beliefs, and your failure to fulfil the challenge proves it.

It's pretty obvious to everyone involved. If you can think up a possible experiment please let me hear it. Otherwise stop being a child.
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stahrwe

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Re: The Bible's Buried Secrets

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Interbane wrote:
You admit above it is an excellent experiment. I presume that means that you now will believe everything I tell you. Is that correct?*
No, but I would honor it if you honored my intent. I have a list of about two dozen disclaimers that should not need to be spoken. For example, the experiment must be told to me via text, on this forum. If you whisper it to your computer screen, it won't reach me. I'd also rather you place it using black text on a white background. The experiment shouldn't require everyone on Earth to perform. It also shouldn't require that everyone on Earth be dead. It also shouldn't require any other ridiculous factor that I've failed to address.

What you think is clever is precisely the reason people ignore you or are rude to you. Should the experiment be possible? Yes, at least within the next few years. Do I need to make a disclaimer about this, and all other potential errors of omission? No, my intent covers them all. If there's an omitted condition you're curious about, just ask.

Something tells me you had no choice. You couldn't think of a possible experiment that would support your beliefs. The only one you could come up with is currently impossible. Nothing else matters. It doesn't matter that other experiments were contingent upon not-yet released technologies. There is no experiment that can support your beliefs, and your failure to fulfil the challenge proves it.

It's pretty obvious to everyone involved. If you can think up a possible experiment please let me hear it. Otherwise stop being a child.
This is really sad. First of all, I had released you from the challenge until you posted this.
The thing you think is telling you I had no choice was what you thought was a cleverly constructed trap for me. You thought you had presented a challenge that would be impossible for me to respond to. A case of a superior logician toying with an inferior creature but you got caught by your own devices.

That you contemplated whether the experiment was capable of being performed or not can be inferred from your statement, 'you don't have to perform the experiment,' that you failed to go on to stipulate the possibility of performance is not my fault. I met the conditions you set forth and which you are now choosing not to honor.

What may be especially troubling to you is that even with this attempt to weasel out of the challenge you have committed nearly the same logical error. You state above, "Should the experiment be possible? Yes, at least within the next few years. Do I need to make a disclaimer about this, and all other potential errors of omission? " Well, who says the experiment might not be possible in a few years? Michio Kaku has a video (ugh) in which he says we have already done successful experiments with time travel. So, even if you had included the caveat that it be possible in the next few years, the proposed experiment would still meet your stipulations.

I accept that not everyone on earth should perform the experiment and that not everyone should be dead. Your statement, It also shouldn't require any other ridiculous factor that I've failed to address. Is only probative to a point. A court will allow minor errors and ommissions. You might have gotten away with claiming that your failure to stipulate that the experiment must be capable of being performed now was a minor ommission, but you would probably not prevail since you stipulated that I need not perform the experiment. That inclusion demonstrates that you had thought about the possibility of performance. A court would probably say that your attempt to expand that to include the possibility of performance constitutes an attempt at avoidance.
interbane wrote: If there's an omitted condition you're curious about, just ask.
That was not and is not my responsibility.
interbane wrote: What you think is clever is precisely the reason people ignore you or are rude to you.
I am having much difficulty processing this statement. Do you mean that being rude to people is justified?

It seems to me that you bet the farm (never a good idea) on what you thought was a sure thing. Your logic was flawed, both in the initial post and in this attempt at avoidance. So, how many do overs am I supposed to give you?
n=Infinity
Sum n = -1/12
n=1

where n are natural numbers.
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Re: The Bible's Buried Secrets

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You thought you had presented a challenge that would be impossible for me to respond to.
Yes, I did think that. I still do. The only way to support the claim that grantors only fund certain experiments is to show that there are possible unfunded experiments which aren't being performed. You've failed to meet that challenge.

The issue isn't my mistake at omitting the word "possible". The issue is that science is already performing any and every experiment that has anything to do with creationism. Every time carbon dating is performed on an old enough object, creationism is being tested. Every time a solar eclipse happens, Newtonian gravity is being tested. Experiments have shown creationism to be false(at least young Earth), and they have also shown Newtonian gravity to be false(at least not as true as Relativity).

Experiments for evolution are already, by extension, testing creationism. They are called "crucial experiments", where the results could support either one hypothesis or the other. Depending on which hypothesis the results support, that is the one which is true. Tens or hundreds of thousands of crucial experiments(with standardized and controlled protocols) have been performed to select between creationism and evolution. In each and every experiment (100%), evolution is shown to be true in place of creationism. These absurd numbers aren't my exaggerations. They are real. This is why we laugh at you when you try to make a case that evolution is false. You simply don't understand how much support there is for it.

It's not a matter of changing protocols. It's not a matter of limited or biased funding. Every objection you have has been answered. Science pursues the truth, not in association with human bias, but in spite of it! For all the pseudoscientists trying to sell us Kinoki foot pads and theories of 100 dimensions, there is the hidden filter of peer review that makes sure such nonsense does not make it into respectable science journals. If you see the garbage and blame science for pseudoscience, you obviously don't understand the peer review process. If you think "protocols" are the variable that would make your beliefs true, then you need to show how. It's an arrogant attack on a system you don't understand, with no supporting evidence nor reasoning, with the only purpose being you can continue to believe the findings of science are false.

You no longer have any reason to think there's a worldwide conspiracy theory that's deluding millions of intelligent people. Due diligence, which you claim is lacking, is actually abundant in spades. No one is ignoring creationism. We are cognizant of it, and of the fact that it's been falsified. If a scientist were to ask for a grant to research a flat Earth, he would be laughed at. The same holds for a young Earth, for the same reasons. It's simply... (simply) false. There is no debate. The earth is not flat, and it is not young. Anyone asking for a grant to research these things is stupid, and not worthy of a grant.


If you want more debate points about the fact that I didn't include the word "possible", that's great, you can have them. But make sure you read this post again, from the perspective that I'm actually correct, so that you actually understand me. You won't champion that perspective, I know. So you won't understand me. Wasted words, all of these.
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Re: The Bible's Buried Secrets

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being editted.
n=Infinity
Sum n = -1/12
n=1

where n are natural numbers.
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Frank 013
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Re: The Bible's Buried Secrets

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Interbane
Wasted words, all of these.
Not wasted interbane... I enjoyed reading it very much.

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Re: The Bible's Buried Secrets

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stahrwe wrote:
Star Burst wrote: Thats odd your asking us to accept mythology as fact.
Your avatar seems appropriate. Actually, I am not asking 'you' to do anything. Interbane agreed to believe everything I tell him so your comment is inappropriate.
Boo frigging who.................. :crying: :crying:
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Re: The Bible's Buried Secrets

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(Please see stahrwe's post above, where he quotes the PBS documentary and an alternative view of the Shasu.)

That 's just about what you'd expect in a dialogue between scholars, an exchange of views based on a weighing of the evidence.
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Re: The Bible's Buried Secrets

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DWill wrote:(Please see stahrwe's post above, where he quotes the PBS documentary and an alternative view of the Shasu.)

That 's just about what you'd expect in a dialogue between scholars, an exchange of views based on a weighing of the evidence.

DWill, I am afraid neither you or Nova get any points for this round. The Nova SHOW did not include a balanced opinion on the other side. The quote I provided challenging the Nova SHOW was from Wikipedia. I had to find it. Nova only provided one side without mentioning the conflicting scholars. That is my objection to the SHOW and why I am so insistent on transcripts.
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Re: The Bible's Buried Secrets

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Notice, if you did either read or see the entire show, that there was plenty of back-and-forth about most of the points raised, that is within the boundary of what the producers consider the view of the average educated watcher: that the Bible isn't the inerrant word of God. That view also, I believe, reflects that of mainstream academia, but you can take it or leave it.

The section on the Shasu was meant to provide an opening for the Bible as containing a grain of historicity concerning even as old an event as the Exodus. That is clearly why the producers wouldn't have delved into the range of opinion around that. They were giving a nod to the Exodus story as possibly historical just by mentioning the theory. I did not take that segment as a strong assertion by any means and doubt whether other viewers did either. As the voiceover said, "tantalizing connections."

You can always claim that nothing is proved beyond the shadow of a doubt, but the plain fact is that most people just don't find factual truth in the Exodus story. The numbers don't begin to add up for most folks, for one thing. 2 to 3 million people--about half the population drawn out of Egypt --wandering in the desert for 40 years, presumably as hunter-gatherers so their leaving no trace is explained? And what about the Deuteronomy passages that emphasize the smallness of the Israelite population as it prepared to invade Canaan? Something isn't jibing. Even if you think you can wiggle out of these difficulties to suit yourself, can't you understand why others can't possibly go along?
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