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The Bible Unearthed

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Interbane

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Re: The Bible Unearthed

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I was in your place once. I rejected everything in the Bible.
I was never in that place, to reject everything in the bible. I've told you around 12 times now my stance, and you get it wrong every time.
Your problem is that you haven't examined every word in the Bible critically, I have.
No, you haven't. You have defended positions that no critical thinker would ever defend. The one thing you haven't done is critically examine the bible. Instead, what you've done is rationalize it. That is the opposite of critical thinking. Critical thinking would be understanding how your rationalizations do no lead to a truthful conclusion.
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Re: The Bible Unearthed

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Interbane wrote:
I was in your place once. I rejected everything in the Bible.
I was never in that place, to reject everything in the bible. I've told you around 12 times now my stance, and you get it wrong every time.
Your problem is that you haven't examined every word in the Bible critically, I have.
No, you haven't. You have defended positions that no critical thinker would ever defend. The one thing you haven't done is critically examine the bible. Instead, what you've done is rationalize it. That is the opposite of critical thinking. Critical thinking would be understanding how your rationalizations do no lead to a truthful conclusion.
Acts 17:11.
n=Infinity
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Interbane

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Re: The Bible Unearthed

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Acts 17:11.
Make your point. Your points are almost always wrong, so playing games as though your point will have some sort of impact is insulting.
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Robert Tulip

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Re: The Bible Unearthed

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Interbane wrote:
Stahrwe wrote:Your problem is that you haven't examined every word in the Bible critically, I have.
No, you haven't. You have defended positions that no critical thinker would ever defend. The one thing you haven't done is critically examine the bible. Instead, what you've done is rationalize it. That is the opposite of critical thinking. Critical thinking would be understanding how your rationalizations do no lead to a truthful conclusion.
Interbane, this was just another cowardly lie by Stahrwe. I can't understand how Stahrwe keeps a clear conscience unless he is just a mercenary. If Stahrwe had even a shred of honesty or courage he would read Finkelstein's book, where the absurdity of the Jewish and Christian religions are exposed quite starkly as grounded in fraud. All Stahrwe's sniping comments, about the number of books in the Bible, about camels and now about Solomon's Temple, are answered clearly in The Bible Unearthed. For Stahrwe to make such malicious attacks on Finkelstein, and not even to have the courtesy, the honesty or the courage to read the book he attacks, is an utter disgrace.

I would have preferred to have had nobody respond to this thread rather than the stupid, dishonest and malicious comments that Stahrwe has made.
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Re: The Bible Unearthed

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Robert Tulip wrote:
Interbane wrote:
Stahrwe wrote:Your problem is that you haven't examined every word in the Bible critically, I have.
No, you haven't. You have defended positions that no critical thinker would ever defend. The one thing you haven't done is critically examine the bible. Instead, what you've done is rationalize it. That is the opposite of critical thinking. Critical thinking would be understanding how your rationalizations do no lead to a truthful conclusion.
Interbane, this was just another cowardly lie by Stahrwe. I can't understand how Stahrwe keeps a clear conscience unless he is just a mercenary. If Stahrwe had even a shred of honesty or courage he would read Finkelstein's book, where the absurdity of the Jewish and Christian religions are exposed quite starkly as grounded in fraud. All Stahrwe's sniping comments, about the number of books in the Bible, about camels and now about Solomon's Temple, are answered clearly in The Bible Unearthed. For Stahrwe to make such malicious attacks on Finkelstein, and not even to have the courtesy, the honesty or the courage to read the book he attacks, is an utter disgrace.

I would have preferred to have had nobody respond to this thread rather than the stupid, dishonest and malicious comments that Stahrwe has made.
No you wouldn't. This was bait and you and I both know it. It was an answer to my posts about the Nova show.

As far as reading TBU if was available on googlebooks maybe but since there is only a partial view there that is not possible, and if I bought and read every P.O.C. book that is around I wouldn't have time for anything else and would exhaust my vast fortune. Perhaps I would agree to read it when you read the Bible. Anyway, part of the advantage of BT is that we can share information. So lay it on us but if it is only Finkelstein's claims about David, Solomon and their time in history, save it, it has been discredited.
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Robert Tulip

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Re: The Bible Unearthed

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stahrwe wrote: if it is only Finkelstein's claims about David, Solomon and their time in history, save it, it has been discredited.
No The Bible Unearthed has not been discredited, it discredits the Bible, and all who have been suckered in by the lies of the Bible.

Earlier we talked about Finkelstein's method of collecting objects from the surface. In The Bible Unearthed, Finkelstein explains that this method gains in breadth what it loses in depth, giving a geographical picture of the location, date and type of human settlement through history across a defined area.

The result of this scientific investigation is the discovery that the Bible fraudulently claimed that Jerusalem/Judah was the center of a great kingdom under David. Judah only contained the two southernmost tribes of Israel, while the northern kingdom of Israel/Samaria contained the other ten. Judah was a rural backwater at the time of David and Solomon. Only when Israel/Samaria was destroyed by Assyria, and many Israelite refugees came to Judah, where the Assyrians ignored them, did Judah start to grow and to build institutions of state. This is all proved fact in the archaeological record. Asserting that it is untrue because it discredits the Bible is not a serious contribution. The Bible is not a credible source, except on the rare occasions where it matches information from real historical sources.

When King Josiah came along in the seventh century, he wanted to justify the claim of Jerusalem to rule all Israel. What better way than to claim that his ambition was not just an audacious bid for power, but was a restoration of a former state that had been blessed by God! So King Josiah proceeded to "find" the book of Deuteronomy, which is suspiciously full of things and ideas that did not exist before Josiah's day, and to invent the myths of David and Solomon, elevating them from small time bandits to mighty kings. There is no archaeological evidence of urban settlement in Judah outside Jerusalem much before Josiah's time. The Zionist restorationist dream of a Greater Israel is a racist fantasy.

On camels, see http://webspace.webring.com/people/ci/i ... raham.html which explains how fundamentalist apologists have fraudulently attacked Finkelstein's findings.
Last edited by Robert Tulip on Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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stahrwe

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Re: The Bible Unearthed

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Egyptian texts of that era mentioned nothing of them. Even in Mari; the kingdom that is situated next to the Arabian deserts; which would have had the greatest use for camels; and of which archaeologists have a large collection of documents; not a single mention is made of camels in contemporaneous text.
This is not proof of anything. Sorry, the Bible mentions camels. That qualifies as documentation. And please add the following to your databases:
As far as hard dates go, the 2500-1500 B.C. suggested earlier for the introduction of the camel into Somalia is the best that can be done from available data. Given the stage domestication had reached by the time the camels and their owners crossed the sea, some additional time must be allowed for earlier stages. Taking this into consideration, it is easily conceivable that the domestication process first got underway between 3000 and 2500 B.C.’, Bulliet, ‘The Camel and the Wheel’, p. 56 (1990 ed., originally published 1975).

‘Archeological discoveries have now shown clearly that references to domesticated camels in Genesis are by no means anachronistic, as some earlier scholars supposed. While camel caravans seem to have been used regularly only from the Late Bronze Age onward, archeologists have found numerous bones of domesticated camels. Thus when Parrot was excavating Mari, he found camel bones in the ruins of a house dated in the pre-Sargonic period (ca 2400 B.C.). An eighteenth-century-B.C. relief from Byblos pictured a camel in a kneeling position, and a socket on the back showed that the animal’s hump and its load had been attached separately. In accord with patriarchal traditions, cylinder seals from Middle Bronze Age Mesopotamia showed riders seated upon camels.’, Harrison, ‘Genesis’, in Bromiley (ed.), International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, volume 3, p. 547 (rev. ed. 1988).

‘Excavations in eastern Arabia, an area once believed to be a cultural backwater unworthy of archaeological investigation, have turned up evidence that camels were first domesticated by Semites before the time of Abraham. Much of this evidence has been examined by M. C. A. MacDonald of the Oriental Faculty at the University of Oxford’, Caesar, ‘Bible and Spade (13.77), 2000.

‘the principle area of extensive early camel domestication was the Syro-Arabian desert, due west of Ur, Abraham’s birthplace (1995: 1356).’, ibid., p. 77.

‘But it has been demonstrated that the camel was already in use during the period in question and that its probable homeland was southern Arabia. It is much more reasonable, therefore, to assume that the camel was the main carrier on the incense route from the very beginning, or nearly so, and that the Semitic tribes of the north came to know the camel in this way in very small numbers. In other words, the presence of camels in the Abraham story can be defended and the story treated as primary evidence of camel use without disputing Albright’s contention that camel-breeding nomads did not exist in Syria and northern Arabia at that time.’, ibid., pp. 66-67.

‘However, in various parts of the country some evidence for the presence of camels has been uncovered, associated with dates as far back as the predynastic period (Free 1944:191).’, Daly, ‘Egyptology: the missing millennium : ancient Egypt in medieval Arabic writings’, p. 102 (2005).

‘In the Egyptian Fayum province was found a camel-skull dated to the ‘Pottery A’ stage, i.e. within the period c. 2000–1400 BC, the period from the Patriarchs practically to Moses; see O. H. Little, Bulletin de l’Institut d’Égypte 18, 1935–6, p. 215.’, Kitchen, ‘Camel’, in Wood & Marshall (eds.), ‘New Bible Dictionary’, p. 160 (3rd ed. 1996).

‘However, there is now a growing body of scholars who believe that camel domestication must have occurred earlier than previously thought (prior to the 12th century BC) and that the patriarchal narratives accurately reflect this (e.g., Ripinsky 1984; Coote and Whitelam 1987: 102; Zarins 1992: 826; Borowski 1998: 112–18).’, Younker, ‘Bronze Age Camel Petroglyphs In The Wadi Nasib, Sinai’, Bible and Spade (13.75), 2000.
How to ride a camel:
Take one camel, two long sticks, a large bundle for padding and something to tie everything together.

Make sure you preserve it so achaeologists 4000+ years later can figure our what you were doing.

How not to learn anything about ancient civilzations. Wander around picking up objects from the surface. Invent theories based on the items you pick up.

I found a bunch of pictures in a field near my home here in Florida. The pictures were of windmills and canals. I have been looking for the windmills here for years but no luck so far.

What can you conclude about artifacts found on the surface of the ground?
Where did they come from? no way to know
Who put them there? no way to know
Who made them? no way to know
How old are then? no way to know
One might speculate but, given the lost shards vs the presentation by Dr. Dever in the Nova show, where he actually had substantial material including references to Jews and the remnants of a palace, it does not seem like there is any question that Dever's conclusion trump Finkelstein's WAG.

But, keep promoting the Easter Egg method, keep using it to support your theories, Please keep doing that.
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n=1

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tat tvam asi
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Re: The Bible Unearthed

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Here's the full documentary Stahrwe - again for the second time at BT - followed by a link to an online download of the Bible Unearthed:


:mrgreen:

The text can be downloaded here: http://ebookee.org/The-Bible-Unearthed- ... 30017.html

Get to reading, no excuses now...
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stahrwe

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Re: The Bible Unearthed

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tat tvam asi wrote:Here's the full documentary Stahrwe - again for the second time at BT - followed by a link to an online download of the Bible Unearthed:

:mrgreen:

The text can be downloaded here: http://ebookee.org/The-Bible-Unearthed- ... 30017.html

Get to reading, no excuses now...
I begin to wonder about your depth. It seems that you rely on video posts and challenges to others to find information. I objected to the expense of the book, true, but I also objected to the time to read every P.O.C. book or article that comes down the pick from some wanna be. If you have the answer to dating the shards, post it, explain it, or watch the video and put it into your own words. But I will tell you this, that you might as well search for Russell's teapot as determine the date and legitimacy of the shards. Even if you can date them, and say who made them, there are no conclusions which you can draw from thier presence except that they are there. It is a complete waste of time. If it isn't; then convince me.
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n=1

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Re: The Bible Unearthed

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The only person at BT whose "depth" is in question, is of course you Stahrwe. You've displayed such shallows of human intellect in these conversations that your mind is best described - metaphorically - as a Banana River Red Fish flat. Whereas most of the people you speak to around here are in the range of the Islamorada Hump in comparison.

I just left you a link to a free download of TBU and you still refuse to read the very book that answers your many questions about Finkelsteins archaeological techniques and dating methods. Robert's told you that the answers are in the book. Yet you continue to refuse the book, or even the video documentary about the book. That displays the shallows of your intellect for all to see and consider Stahrwe, don't think that it doesn't...
Last edited by tat tvam asi on Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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