Israel or Palestine, Who's Right?

[TheManOfThought]

I recommend some reading if you are interested. William P. Grady's book. How satan turned America against God. It talks about alot of this and it also has the evidence to back it up.

[bionov]

Was this recent air strike on Syria by Israel an offensive or defensive move? It appears form intelligence that Iran was shipping weapons to Hezbollah militia via Syria. Also, reports that the Assad’s government has chemical weapons and has used these against its own people has the world upset.
Let me quote an Israel official. “Israel is determined to prevent the transfer of chemical weapons or other game-changing weaponry by the Syrian regime to terrorists, especially to Hezbollah in Lebanon.” By terrorits, could this also include Hamas in Palestine?
Since Israel doesn’t usually make the first move and only strikes back when it’s been attacked, what do you think of these recent air strikes against Syria?

[adogsreligion]

I found the book Elias Chacours' "Blood Brothers" to be really helpful in understanding the Palestinian point of view as well as the pre-WWII Jewish community living there. It was shocking to see how many Palestinians had their property stolen from them overnight.

http://www.amazon.com/Blood-Brothers-El ... B0055X6N12

[etudiant]

Since Israel doesn’t usually make the first move and only strikes back when it’s been attacked, what do you think of these recent air strikes against Syria?

Mr Bionov- This is humour, is it not? Have you actually done some research for your project?

[bionov]

I’m not saying that Israel has to be directly attacked before it strikes another Arab country. It appears that Israel will assault another country if it believes that terrorists are involved in supplying weapons of any kind to prepare for an attack against Israel. My research has indicated that Israel is always protecting its security by any means necessary. I will agree that Israel is very violent in its response to any perceived threat.
Please look at the rest of my post about the Israeli air strike on Syria.
[ Was this recent air strike on Syria by Israel an offensive or defensive move? It appears form intelligence that Iran was shipping weapons to Hezbollah militia via Syria. Also, reports that the Assad’s government has chemical weapons and has used these against its own people has the world upset.
Let me quote an Israel official. “Israel is determined to prevent the transfer of chemical weapons or other game-changing weaponry by the Syrian regime to terrorists, especially to Hezbollah in Lebanon.” By terrorists, could this also include Hamas in Palestine? ]

[youkrst]

Since Israel doesn’t usually make the first move and only strikes back when it’s been attacked

yeah i fought the urge to post when i first read that a while back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKGA48MptIY

war pigs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE2kMWNJomo

[etudiant]

I’m not saying that Israel has to be directly attacked before it strikes another Arab country.

I'd argue with you that it has, a number of times, and still is today.

1) Pre-1917: No one asked for Jewish immigration into Palestine, not the Ottoman authorities, nor the local inhabitants. The only people that were "attacking" Jews were their neighbours in various parts of the world, mostly outside Palestine.

2) Smaller numbers of immigrants were more or less accepted, but as numbers swelled there was a backlash- realistically, the same as we would see elsewhere. The Brits did not, in truth, ask for Jewish immigration to Palestine, but the Balfour Declaration. This was just a ploy, at the crisis point of WW1, to obtain Jewish support for the war effort. They made similar promises to Arabs, which were just as transitory.

3) 1948-49: The Jewish population that no one had asked for had arrived, and the UN, given recent events in Europe, awarded them a disproportionate share of Palestine. This was still not enough, in their estimation, and so violent efforts were made to remove Palestinians from their homes, in order to achieve a strong, defensible country for Jews, no matter the demographic facts on the ground, nor for that matter the UN resolution creating a Jewish state.

One could argue that Jews were attacked by Germans, and many others in Europe, for the most reprehensible reasons, but they were not in Palestine, at least not before they insisted on colonizing a country that, clearly, did not want any more colonization.

4) 1956: Britain and France decided to retake the Suez Canal, recently nationalized by Egypt. This sort of venture was going out of style by then, and so they felt they needed a cover. A story was hatched: Israel would "invade" Egypt, and British and French forces would land on the Suez Canal, to separate them and "peacekeep". Of course, the canal would be retained, and Israel, in return for promises of arms and aid, would "withdraw".

5) 1967: Israel initiated a surprise attack on Egypt, Syria, and Jordan. They had had some provocation from Egypt, but were most certainly not under attack, nor was it imminent. The Arabs at the time were well armed, but Israel saw, quite rightly, huge flaws in the Arab states ability to train forces and maintain complex weapons. An opportunity existed to deal a decisive blow, and expand Israel's land area. They took it. They were successful.

We could go on here, but I am sure you are getting the point. Israel, historically, has indeed struck out against Arab countries, whether marginally threatened, minimally so, or not at all. They have struck when time and place have offered geopolitical gain. The most recent moves are only the end of a long chain of violence and retribution, but they stem from the origins of the conflict, which at its core was an attempt to grab land that did not belong to them, by any logical set of reasoning.

[christopheranton]

Why not just unite the separate areas, Israel, The West Bank, Gaza, and all of Jerusalem into one country. Also allow the return of all displaced Palestinians and let all of the Jewish inhabitants remain living there as well. Then have universal adult suffrage, so everyone would have equal rights to a say in how the country was run. There might even be an Arab majority then. The Israeli jews would just be part of a larger country and would not be able to oppress their Arab fellow countrymen/women.
This arrangement could be supervised by the United Nations, to make certain of fair play.
The idea that the Jews have the exclusive right to Palestine should be outlawed, like other discredited myths, such as the nazi illusion of Aryan supremacy. There might even be peace then after a while.
It's worth a try,

[etudiant]

Why not just unite the separate areas, Israel, The West Bank, Gaza, and all of Jerusalem into one country. Also allow the return of all displaced Palestinians and let all of the Jewish inhabitants remain living there as well. Then have universal adult suffrage, so everyone would have equal rights to a say in how the country was run. There might even be an Arab majority then. The Israeli jews would just be part of a larger country and would not be able to oppress their Arab fellow countrymen/women.
This arrangement could be supervised by the United Nations, to make certain of fair play.
The idea that the Jews have the exclusive right to Palestine should be outlawed, like other discredited myths, such as the nazi illusion of Aryan supremacy. There might even be peace then after a while.
It's worth a try,

Very good idea, and I suspect the way things will eventually work out. But unfortunately today Israel holds all the cards, and they are not going to backtrack- not one inch. They have a stranglehold on American politicians, and hence US support, and (so far) a monopoly on nuclear weapons in the Mid-East. When one or both of these gives way, we might see some movement.

[bionov]

Now that my biotech thriller novel, “The True Virus”, is available on Amazon, you now have the chance to read it and really see if I fairly handled both countries viewpoints during the last Gaza/Israeli war. Also, if you like biotech thrillers which involve a DNA computer programmed to produce a real live virus, I’m sure you’ll enjoy my novel.
http://www.amazon.com/True-Virus-Thrill ... true+virus