A Shropshire Lad

[Penelope]

I have been reading III - The Recruit - over and over....I like it....and I don't know why.

Anyway I thought I'd leave a link on here in case you might like to look at Ludlow. Nothing to be melancholy about there!!!

http://www.enjoyengland.com/destination ... low&MED=St

If...if...if it has worked. I'll try it and if not I'll try again...like Robert the Bruce.

Of Ludlow Tower....I can't find anything except a mobile phone mast!!!

Can any of you enlighten me? I do feel ignorant.

[Saffron]

Since we are fortunate to have more women than men participating right now, I wondered if you have any reaction to the several "Gather ye rosebud"-type poems in the book.These are as old as the hills, of course.
They are seduction poems in which the guy usually convinces the girl to take pity on him and give in to sex. No. 5 is an exception, where the girl gives him the heave-ho, but the idea is the same. I realize I'm taking the discussion back to sex, but I suppose everything winds up there, anyway. Do you get bugged by these poems? I was going to ask why there don't seem to be any modern poems where the woman does the persuading, but with what is known about my gender's admirable readiness for action, I guess I don't have to.
DWill

I have finally found poems to post as a response to the seduction question. If I read Coquette et Froide correctly, she is saying get to it, boy! I find the language challenging, so I could have it backwards. Please, someone, correct me if I do. In the interest of not having this post be too long, the modern poem is Seduction Poem by Alison Croggon. I will post it on the Poem of the Moment thread.

Coquette et Froide
by Julia Ward Howe
(1819-1910)

What is thy thought of me?
What is thy feeling?
Lov'st thou the veil of sense,
Or its revealing?

Leav'st thou the maiden rose
Drooping and blushing,
Or rend'st its bosom with
Kissing and crushing?

I would be beautiful
That thou should'st woo me,
Gentle, delightsome, but
To draw thee to me.

Yet should thy longing eye
Ever caress me,
And quickened Fantasy
Only, possess me,

Thus thy heart's highest need
Long would I cherish,
Lest its more trivial wish
Pall, and then perish.

Would that Love's fond pursuit
Were crowned never,
Or that his virgin kiss
Lasted for ever!

[Saffron]

Just a note I meant to make on the previous post. Julie Ward Howe also wrote The Battle Hymn of the Republic.

[DWill]

What is thy thought of me?
What is thy feeling?
Lov'st thou the veil of sense,
Or its revealing?

Leav'st thou the maiden rose
Drooping and blushing,
Or rend'st its bosom with
Kissing and crushing?

I would be beautiful
That thou should'st woo me,
Gentle, delightsome, but
To draw thee to me.

Yet should thy longing eye
Ever caress me,
And quickened Fantasy
Only, possess me,

Thus thy heart's highest need
Long would I cherish,
Lest its more trivial wish
Pall, and then perish.

Would that Love's fond pursuit
Were crowned never,
Or that his virgin kiss
Lasted for ever!

Saffron,
I read it that way, too, that she'd rather not be loved platonically. The third and fourth stanzas seem to clearly give her preference to have him all over her. But if it is to be that his eye, only, caress her, so that she has only a fantasy of sex, she'd be happy with that. But isn't that only so that the possibility of physical love would be kept alive? ("Lest its more trivial wish/Pall, and then perish.") Rather than lose him altogether, she'd rather that the relationship not be consummated ("love's fond pursuit/Were crowned never); then, at least, his chaste kiss last forever. (Something similar to what Keats says In "Grecian Urn," that to prolong forever an intense expectatation can be better than satiation, because then there's no letdown?)
By the way, what is it that makes me surprised to see a poem like this from her? (Maybe it's because of "The Battle Hymn of the Republic") I just have a stereotype of her and other women of the time as being all prudish. Of course it's very inaccurate, as they were out ahead in many ways. I scanned Wiki and found out that she had an unfinished novel called Hermaphrodite.
Good find!
DWill

[Penelope]

Quote Saffron:

I have finally found poems to post as a response to the seduction question.

I am using the above quote to share this with you Saffron - on the question of seduction - I am sure you'll enjoy it.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OW_zi8n4HDQ

[Saffron]

Penelope,
Flanders and Swann are much like Mark Russell in the US.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of5sLO9rVLs

Thanks for the laugh!

Saffron

[Penelope]

Thanks Saffron: I hadn't heard of him, but there are others in my family who will enjoy this too.

But Hark!!! I hear the footsteps of Chris approaching.....we have posted this 'off topic'.....

Perhaps he'll move it to Whimsey......heads down Saffron...look busy!!!

[DWill]

Yes, I'll have to bring the class back to the topic, which is (remember?) The Shropshire Lad. Actually, Saffron has a valid excuse to watch from the sidelines if she wishes: she's not into depression right now; that is, she's not into risking feeling worse! But why would that happen from this little book of poems? I have a couple of statistics. What percentage of the poems would you estimate deal directly with death? No, it's not all of them. By my count it's "only" 29 of the 63, or less than half. That leaves 34 for happier subjects. Well, not exactly. The mood could be rated as happy in exactly one of the poems. Maybe you recall it. It's XLII, "The Merry Guide." I kept waiting for this poem to get to the real point, which had to be something to do with the grave, but it didn't! Housman slipped it in there probably at the insistence of his wife.

Which of these poems are to you the weirdest? I know what my two candidates are. XLIII, "The Immortal Part" does grimness about as well as it could be done. I like this one a lot. How could anyone not with this final stanza:

Before this fire of sense decay,
This smoke of thought blow clean away,
And leave with ancient night alone
The stedfast and enduring bone.

The immortal part is bone, of course, not the soul, which the poet says exists but dies with the flesh.

My other choice for weirdness is LIII, "The True Lover." It's not subtle at all; I'm sure you'll get the obvious point (sort of a bad pun).

My favorite thematic group, of which I count 8 poems, is yearning for the country of youth when exiled in the city. These are very affecting, I think.

And I still like the penultimate poem where Terence defends his gloomy esthetic. This has a lot of dash and brio.

Just wanted to talk about the book before I go off for a week's vacation. See you all later.

DWill

[Penelope]

Hope you have a great holiday DWill!!!

I will swat up on Shropshire Lad - I feel as though I should be upholding it, since its basis is so close to home (literaly) but do you know what? I don't like it much at all.

I suppose even a Philistine is entitled to her opinion!!!

[Thomas Hood]

Housman slipped it in there probably at the insistence of his wife.

He wasn't the type to have a wife, Will.

Tom