Proud to be living in America

[Grim]

http://www.democracynow.org/shows/2007/12/7 - The James Baldwin 20th Anniversary at around 36:00 of the mp3 is the highlight of this clip. I just needed an excuse to share it and this is it so:

[DWill]

He's a Chistian though. I am not a Christian myself, but I can understand how it is his faith that guides him and keeps him strong. I am a non believer but I respect that he is a believer and that it is an important part of who he is. I don't think that he should omit that from his speech simply because not everybody shares his views, and to please Athiests when he is not an Athiest himself. It's not as though he's imposing his Christian views on the US through law so I feel that he should be allowed to keep this.

Although I don't feel that a speech to the country as the new president would be the time to display religious preference, that is not really what "God bless America" is about. The phrase is a nationalistic statement that America is worthy of God's singular regard because it has been exceptional from the beginning. It probably has something to do with religious conceptions of America as the new Israel. Other countries have their illusions of election, too, but the U.S. seems to believe it most strongly. Let's show some humility. We don't have to dump on ourselves, just realize that our history does not in any way bear out some fable of godly virtue.

Politicians could say "God bless America and the rest of the world" instead, but they wouldn't because this removes America's specialness.

[Penelope]

We were once privilidged to be invited to the 'Independence Day' celebrations at Filingdales - the American Satelite Spy Station on the Mendip Hills, in Yorkshire.

That is a whole American (military) community there in the middle of the Yorkshire Moors. With shops and cafes - all in true American style.

There was an Independence Day parade....with various groups of US people marching smartly and proudly. At the tail end of the parade came the local village 'Girl Guides Troop' including our friends' young daughter.
Well, they marched in 'bunch' with one sock up and one sock down and ties and hair all assunder......(we were secretly quite proud of their demeaner).

Then we went to see a baseball game. Before the game, they played the US National Anthem...and everyone stood up solemnly to attention. Then, they played our British National Anthem.....and we didn't stand up...because that would have been hypocritical of us....we just don't do that anymore.....and we bore the scathing glances of the US crowds very bravely.

We are an older nation.....(and it is easier to rule a small island than the gigantic Americas)....but we are an older nation and somewhat synical of patriotism. But synicism is nothing to be proud of......We learned that, that day. However, we cannot go back to being 'the way we were' without feeling like complete hypocrits. So, we bare your contempt as bravely as we can.

xxPen

[Ophelia]

they played our British National Anthem.....and we didn't stand up...because that would have been hypocritical of us....we just don't do that anymore....

Interesting point Penelope. I tried to think if anybody here stands up for the Marseillaise, but the thing is I don't think I've ever found myself anywhere where it was being played. Wait, though, it happened in San Diego, in front of a mixed audience, and they told us to stand up.
I think the Marseillaise is played in military ceremonies, at the end of political meetings, but if you don't attend such events you don't get a chance to wonder whether to stand or sit.

So, apart from thinking that France is best, there is litle show of patriotism. Yet I wouldn't speak of cynicism, rather it's something that's not thought much about.
One exception is the Bastille Day military parades, whose enthusiastic support has proved to be undiminished year after year. So no cynicism there.
But my students will sometimes comment spontaneously on how patriotic Americans are, showing they've realized there's a big difference between here and there.

[Penelope]

And,....Ophelia......the Marseillaise is a very inspiring 'tune'

Our anthem is very 'sombre'......God, no wonder the Aussies keep winning our ashes.

I can't believe we are having this conversation.....but believe me, it rejoices my heart!!!

Hold my hand!!! xxxx

[Ophelia]

Well, I never thought I'd see the day someone told me the Marseillaise was more inspiring than their own national anthem. Wait until I give you the words

Perhaps it's fine if it is played by a band, but it's impossible to sing in tune, and it is such that people have to shout at the top of their lungs-- quite a musical experience.

Now the words: It was a revolutionary song, and it's all bloody and gory, asking you to kill other people. No wonder we got Napoleon with such a song!


Allons enfants de la Patrie
Le jour de gloire est arrivé.
Contre nous, de la tyrannie,
L'étandard sanglant est levé,
l'étandard sanglant est levé,
Entendez-vous, dans la compagnes.
Mugir ces farouches soldats
Ils viennent jusque dans nos bras
Egorger vos fils,
vos compagnes. Let us go, children of the fatherland
Our day of Glory has arrived.
Against us stands tyranny,
The bloody flag is raised,
The bloody flag is raised.
Do you hear in the countryside
The roar of these savage soldiers
They come right into our arms
To cut the throats of your sons,
your country.

Aux armes citoyens!
Formez vos bataillons,
Marchons, marchons!
Qu'un sang impur
Abreuve nos sillons.



To arms, citizens!
Form up your battalions
Let us march, Let us march!
That their impure blood
Should water our fields

Amour sacré de la Patrie,
Conduis, soutiens nos bras vengeurs,
Liberté, liberté cherie,
Combats avec tes defénseurs;
Combats avec tes défenseurs.
Sous drapeaux, que la victoire
Acoure à tes mâles accents;
Que tes ennemis expirants
Voient ton triomphe et notre gloire! Sacred love of the fatherland
Guide and support our vengeful arms.
Liberty, beloved liberty,
Fight with your defenders;
Fight with your defenders.
Under our flags, so that victory
Will rush to your manly strains;
That your dying enemies
Should see your triumph and glory

Aux armes citoyens!
Formez vos bataillons,
Marchons, marchons!
Qu'un sang impur
Abreuve nos sillons.



To arms, citizens!
Form up your battalions
Let us march, Let us march!
That their impure blood
Should water our fields

-------
And I've only given you an extract!

I much prefer the anthem of the European Union, Beethoven's Ode To Joy. That's beautiful, it's about brotherhood, doesn't ask you to kill anybody...

Now, which one do you have...OH, yes. I really enjoyed learning "God Save the Queen" as a child (I think I was ecstatic with whatever was in the English lesson!)
On the plus side, no gore (that I know of), but, er, yes, musically speaking, and all this going on about the Queen... not the most stimulating song for the 21st century.

I suggest you too switch to the "Ode to Joy" (Now are you keeping count of how many Prime Ministers I'm causing to be lynched?).

[Penelope]

Well, those words to the Marseillaise may be quite gorey.....but ...it's all in the tune......

Oh, Ophelia....and if we could only adopt Beethoven's 9th...as allour national anthems........

Because that is about 'joy' as opposed to'pleasure' that is about the race, humanity.....and not about 'the nation'.

Music as a unification....rather than words.

We went to see 'Les Miserable'......the tunes are good......but they should never have made such a serious subject into a musical.....Non? ou Oui?

Hold my hand....xx

[Ophelia]

Penelope, I can't give you an answer about Notre Dame de Paris because I dislike all musicalls as a genre

I also notice that it may look like we've been doing some barely related chatting since the thread was "Proud to be living in America" and we were often answering "Europe".

Oh well, surely it shouldn't be too big a sin.

[Penelope]

Ophelia - Have we broken the rules?

Smacked hands for us!!!

Let us consider ourselves reprimanded!!

xxx

[BookWorm88]

I <3 America