The Bible's Buried Secrets part II; Atheist Myth debunked and Israel Finkelstein proven wrong.

[tat tvam asi]

Spamwe, of course Finkelstein listed the books of the OT as such because throughout his book he is largely addressing the Judeo-Christian world. This is very much done on purpose and he is very much an expert on these matters. The whole point is to address the bible and he's presented the bible in terms of how it's viewed in the Judeo-Christian world today. But once again you've taken off on a wild goose chase looking for some little point somewhere which you can use to devise a strawman, as usual. And it's pathetic and revealing in terms of broadcasting to the world just how desperate you and people like you are to try and undermine Finkelstein and many other great minds of our generation.

[Azrael]

Spamwe, of course Finkelstein listed the books of the OT as such because throughout his book he is largely addressing the Judeo-Christian world. This is very much done on purpose and he is very much an expert on these matters. The whole point is to address the bible and he's presented the bible in terms of how it's viewed in the Judeo-Christian world today. But once again you've taken off on a wild goose chase looking for some little point somewhere which you can use to devise a strawman, as usual. And it's pathetic and revealing in terms of broadcasting to the world just how desperate you and people like you are to try and undermine Finkelstein and many other great minds of our generation.

Apparently there is no babble scripture for logic and reason that's obvious from Spamwe's post.

And it's pathetic and revealing in terms of broadcasting to the world just how desperate you and people like you are to try and undermine Finkelstein and many other great minds of our generation.

This is an attempt by them to cover up the real truth.

[stahrwe]

Spamwe, of course Finkelstein listed the books of the OT as such because throughout his book he is largely addressing the Judeo-Christian world. This is very much done on purpose and he is very much an expert on these matters. The whole point is to address the bible and he's presented the bible in terms of how it's viewed in the Judeo-Christian world today. But once again you've taken off on a wild goose chase looking for some little point somewhere which you can use to devise a strawman, as usual. And it's pathetic and revealing in terms of broadcasting to the world just how desperate you and people like you are to try and undermine Finkelstein and many other great minds of our generation.

Your point might slip by if it was from anyone other than you. But with your background you should know the books of the Bible.

Finkelstein did two things which negate your argument.

1) He labeled Figure 1 as the Books of the Hebrew Bible. The books he listed are not the books of the Hebrew Bible. There are only 24 of them not 39.

2) He modified the order of appearance of the books to that of the Hebrew Bible, at least as closely as he could given that he has the wrong names.

What he should have done is what many books I have did and list the Hebrew names and order but have footnotes explaining how the 24 became 39. It was a pretty simple fix.

[Robert Tulip]

'Hebrew Bible' is commonly used by scholars instead of Old Testament. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_Bible says the Hebrew Bible had 39 books. Stahrwe is talking about the Tanakh which traditionally had 24 books.

[tat tvam asi]

"Spamwe is as Spamwe does." - Spamwe Gump

[stahrwe]

'Hebrew Bible' is commonly used by scholars instead of Old Testament. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_Bible says the Hebrew Bible had 39 books. Stahrwe is talking about the Tanakh which traditionally had 24 books.

More people than Robert are confused if Wikipedia says that.
But it also says;

The Hebrew Bible (also Hebrew Scriptures, Latin Biblia Hebraica) is a term used by biblical scholars to refer to the Jewish Bible (Hebrew: תנ"ך‎ Tanakh). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_Bible

this is the same url that Robert Tulip provided. The Hebrew Bible is the Jewish Bible is the Tanakh. Robert is drawing a difference here where there isn't one.

Judaism 101
A Glossary of Basic Jewish Terms and Concepts

TANAKH

"TANAKH" - an Acronym, based on the letters T (for "Torah"), N (for "Neviim," the Prophets), and K (for "Ketuvim," the Sacred Writings). It is the compendium of the teachings of G-d to human beings in document form.

How does G-d teach Man? In the Torah, He did it by direct communication with Moshe, the "Master of the Prophets," whereby Moshe literally received "dictation from Heaven" for every word of the Torah. In the "Neviim," HaShem "spoke," as it were, with the great and holy Prophets and Prophetesses of the Jewish People, and His Messages were transmitted by them to the Jewish People, for the most part, and sometimes to other nations. In the Sacred Writings, great individuals were inspired by "Ruach HaKodesh," the Holy Spirit, to produce great and holy works.

The composition of the "TANAKH" was determined by the "Anshei K'nesset HaGedolah," the Men of the Great Assembly, under the influence of the "Holy Spirit." It consists of twenty-four "Books," where first and second volumes of one work are counted as one, and where all the twelve "Books" of the "Trei Asar," the Twelve Prophets, are also considered as one.

The twenty-four "Books" are as follows:

1-5: The Five Books of Moses:
• Bereshit, or Genesis
• Shemot, or Exodus
• VaYikra, or Leviticus
• BaMidbar, or Numbers
• Devarim, or Deuteronomy.

6-9: The "Neviim Rishonim," the Early Prophets:
• Yehoshua
• "Shoftim"/Judges
• Shmuel I and II
• "Melachim"/Kings I and II

10-13: The "Neviim Acharonim," the Later Prophets:
• Yeshayahu
• Yirmiyahu
• Yechezkel
• "Trei Asar":

Books and Prophets within "Trei Asar":
Hoshea, Yoel, Amos, Ovadiah, Yonah, Michah, Nachum, Chavakuk, Tzefaniah, Chaggai, Zechariah, Malachi

14-16: The "Sifrei Emet," "Books of Truth":
• "Tehilim"/Psalms
• "Mishlei"/Proverbs
• "Iyov"/Job

17-21: The "Five Megilot" or "Five Scrolls":
• "Shir HaShirim"/Song of Songs
• Ruth
• "Eichah"/Lamentations
• "Kohelet"/Ecclesiastes
• Esther

22-24: The "Other Writings":
• Daniel
• Ezra-Nechemiah
• "Divrei HaYamim"/Chronicles I and II

http://www.ou.org/about/judaism/tanakh.htm

[Robert Tulip]

More people than Robert are confused if Wikipedia says that.

Mere mistaken pedantry. Stahrwe's straw man has collapsed to leave him clutching at this foolish reed of how many books there are in the Bible.

Finkelstein ... labeled Figure 1 as the Books of the Hebrew Bible. The books he listed are not the books of the Hebrew Bible. There are only 24 of them not 39..

But http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible says "The 24 texts of the Hebrew Bible are divided into 39 books in Christian Old Testaments". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:B ... brew_Bible says "For the purposes of Wikipedia categories, Hebrew Bible refers only to those books in the Jewish Tanakh, which is the same as the Protestant Old Testament."

Finkelstein's notorious page 7 is called "Books of the Hebrew Bible" in complete conformity with scholarly practice. All these 39 books are in the Tanakh, it is just that some of them are conventionally put together by Judaism. Stahrwe is using the fact that Jews group these 39 books into 24 "texts", sometimes also called books, to suggest an error where there is none. Big point.

I hope Stahrwe actually read the link I provided earlier to a scholarly archaeological text that shows that you can find out a lot about the past by systematically collecting things from the surface, the method used in this case by Finkelstein. This thread might be better titled "The Education of Young Spamwe".

Oh, and did Stahrwe notice, (does he even read what he posts himself?), The Hebrew Bible lists as Books and Prophets within "Trei Asar": Hoshea, Yoel, Amos, Ovadiah, Yonah, Michah, Nachum, Chavakuk, Tzefaniah, Chaggai, Zechariah, Malachi" and groupings of Kings and Chronicles? These combine to make Finkelstein's list exactly the same as the Tanakh. I look forward to hearing Don Quixote Spamwe tell Wikipedia that Amos and Hosea are not books in the Hebrew Bible because Finkelstein's archaeology does not support Zionist fundamentalism. Good luck tilting at windmills. Tell us how you go.