In total there are 28 users online :: 4 registered, 0 hidden and 24 guests (based on users active over the past 60 minutes) Most users ever online was 1086 on Mon Jul 01, 2024 9:03 am
Some people are excellent orators - and the various nuances in a voice can help to interpret the meaning. The Welsh are terribly good at this. If you listen to Dylan Thomas reading any of his own poetry - this is demonstrated very well.
When we read the written word....we are apt to put our own interpretation on the phrases, and put emphasis on certain words or syllables which alters the meaning of the sentence if not completely, then to some extent.
It helps to have been a member of something like this forum for a year or so, and then we have an idea of the characters of the people with whom we are conversing. I might read something by grim, or Robert Tulip (as I have recently) and thought........heyup - that doesn't sound like Robert, or no, that's not what grim means - because I know certain things about him by now.
I think you can express a pain in the neck - by just a groan!!! No words needed.
Only those become weary of angling who bring nothing to it but the idea of catching fish.
He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad....
You do not need to CORRECT me! You don't undestand what I am saying so I'm done with you. As far as communication is concerned ... the attitude you conveyed in your last writing spoke volumes!
"A good friend can tell you what is the matter with you in a minute. He may not seem such a good friend after telling." - Arthur Brisbane
Thomas: "When you talk, you think like a Yooper. Yoopers are in a world of their own. When you write, you write according to the standards of modern American culture."
Ha! Something here rings true, but I'm not sure what it is...
The following quote is from On Being Certain by Robert A. Burton(I highly recommend this book to those of you who haven't already read it), I believe there is something useful in it for this discussion.
The fish trap exists because of the fish. Once you've gotten the fish, you can forget the trap. The rabbit snare exists because of the rabbit. Once you've gotten the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words exist becasu8e of meaning. Once you've gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man who has forgotten the words so that I can talk with him? ---Chuang-Tzu (c. 200 B.C.E.)
Saffron: Once you've gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man who has forgotten the words so that I can talk with him? ---Chuang-Tzu (c. 200 B.C.E.)
But, but, but, but, but.....there would then be silence......
How could we then, convey the little we have learned....to those who haven't learned it yet?
Not out of a need to impress....but just out of love of our own..
Only those become weary of angling who bring nothing to it but the idea of catching fish.
He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad....
Saffron: Once you've gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man who has forgotten the words so that I can talk with him? ---Chuang-Tzu (c. 200 B.C.E.)
But, but, but, but, but.....there would then be silence......
No worries! I think what Chuang-Tzu is saying that we should always remember that a word is an invention, a tool -- not the idea or concept. A word is a means to capture an idea or concept. I would say it is also a warning not to get too stuck on the words themselves and loose the meaning of what is trying to be conveyed.
Nit picking word usage can be frustrating. I find myself doing it from time to time, then delete what I've written and reread the post to fill in the blanks. Sometimes our words need to be criticized if we're discussing a deep idea, to keep all parties on the same wavelength.
Another thing that frustrates me are the various forms of cognitive bias, where even if all words are taken in context, the true meaning of the concept is slightly shifted during interpretation. Or the writer may skip a conceptual link, not on purpose, but because it's a link they take for granted and it never occurs to them to acknowledge it.
I had a visual image once of how words are used to portray the concepts we're trying to get across. It was a sort of 'lego train', where the words were individual lego pieces in varying width strung out to form the idea. The varying widths represent whether a word is precise in definition, or less precise, having numerous contexts or being vague. The idea a person is trying to convey would ideally be seen as a fine line, but since we have only words to convey the idea, the 'lego train' is placed over the line, assembled piece by piece to fully 'cover' the line. I guess another way to visualize this would be to draw a long wavy line on the ground, then covering it with various size bricks so that no part of the line is showing. After the line is covered, we have nothing but the bricks to go by. We do the best we can to figure out precisely where the line is, but the varying widths of the bricks leave room for error. It's just an interesting visual, I don't mean it as an explanatory device.
