The real problem with Atheism.

[Asana Bodhitharta]

Quote:I never said I knew I would like to see some evidence before committing to a line of thought however.Now that is refreshing, someone being Honest.Quote:Random mutation.In a truly random series of mutations of any specific species you would have no order forming which means you would never reach what we call a "normal" anything. But we do have "normal" Mammals, Reptiles......Therefore, we do see each kind according to it's own kind.Quote:Possibly, again I would like to see some evidence for this line of thought, it could as easily been a Galactic chicken fart that set everything into motion.Interesting.... You are willing to say "A Galactic chicken fart" But you are not willing to say God. Quote:We, mankind make up these definitions, plain and simple. The only intelligence behind these elements is ours, used to define what we see around us.In a sense you could say humans created order because we defined what is orderly and what is not. Humans are continuously creating order as a reflection of the created order of other things.Quote:To have Intelligence in my opinion one must first be conscious, and have decision making abilities; the ability to learn is another key component. Application of acquired knowledge and being capable of rational thought are also good descriptions. That is a very lucid statement and I agree with it totally. Now when we honestly follow that line of reasoning we can see at least the possibility of an Intelligent concious being creating intelligence in the universe just as human have learned to create artificial learning programs where computers "think" according to what programs we put into them. We have never seen nor will we ever see our television just "decide to have cable or wash the dishes because it feels like it" no, if we don't program it to "think" it simply won't. I am not asking you to believe in anything without exoeriencing it for yourself, but if you can see the possibility of God, you may then experience God, and experience is something that is hard to deny.I have experienced God.Quote:Sure, but I say again, our intelligence could simply be a product of evolution and until I see some evidence to the contrary I see no reason to suddenly believe in invisible spiritual space gods.LaterIf intelligence is a byproduct of evolution you must understand that that would make evolution an intelligent process.Thanks, I enjoy your posts.

[Asana Bodhitharta]

Quote:The really interesting, and telling, thing here is that not even our resident THEISTS are coming to his side. Because there is just nothing there.Mr. P.Proud Pit-Bull of Booktalk!Any resident Theist that doesn't come forward to stand by those who are believers they are ashamed of their belief and will be judged for being ashamed.

[Asana Bodhitharta]

Quote:I think you are missing something here, most atheists are willing to say god COULD have been the cause. But with out evidence all possibilities are equally possible; from magic squirrels, to Galactic chicken farts. Most atheist are not willing to say God COULD have been the cause. But, because you can be honest enough to say it, that shows true intelligence.The possibility, that is all I am saying. If a person who hasn't experienced God say's "God is possible" that is all that is required to be honest. And, with that Honesty the Love of Reality blooms and that person is capable of experiencing the reality of God. But, until the experience, only understanding that there is this possibility, that is the only thing required to live honestly and only the authentic life is worth living.

[Frank 013]

You should go back through our other religious threads, I can't think of one member that has not allowed for at least the infinitesimal possibility of a supreme being of some kind or another.Well maybe Mr. P Without proof we simply cannot decide to believe in a god; just as we cannot simply decide to believe that a frying pan is a water buffalo or that a galactic chicken fart created the universe. Just as I need evidence to believe in other things like platypus and sea cows I need evidence to believe in a god, platypus and sea cows I have seen, in photos and in zoos. God so far has come up short.Another thing is the extraordinary qualification, to believe in sea cows is nothing unusual no one claims that they can fly or dance a waltz. If people did make those claims the belief in such a creature would require much more evidence. The same is true of a god, the more outrageous the claim the more and stronger evidence needed. Our stance is simply this. Not one argument to date is evidence for a god; in fact study of science and the world around us has shown us quite the opposite. You claim the positive that there is a god therefore the burden of proof is on you. So show us. Later Edited by: Frank 013 at: 10/19/06 11:56 pm

[Chris OConnor]

I seriously want to hear from Mad, Niall and Dissident in THIS thread. Someone drag them in here.

[Asana Bodhitharta]

Quote:Without proof we simply cannot decide to believe in a god; just as we cannot simply decide to believe that a frying pan is a water buffalo or that a galactic chicken fart created the universe. Ironically, Man is the proof/evidence, Man is the MANifestation as it is written in "WITNESS THE REAL"Now, I know all of this is impossiblefor some to understand but that'sbecause they don't want tounderstand that GOD is ImpossibleUnderstanding.So Adam naturally managed the planthat GOD had planned Adam tomanage, which was for Adam tomanage the planet. And, it was agood plan so good that the plan wasplanned by the planner to manage tomanifest from a manager, managersthat become planners so in that wayplanners could manifest plans forplanets of their own planning.60So we took the male man firstbecause the female man wouldhave the whole world inside of her.So, in that way, it can be saidthat GOD gave the male kind ofman a (female) man and that(female) man came from the wombof the male man.There was the male man and thefemale man with a womb, then asGOD gave the man the worldthe man did likewise giving thewoman the womb for which theworld of mankind came forth.The Hallowed named UtmostHigh God manifested an in andout of body manifestation as isstill done now!For, the mystery of sex is hidden andopen in the sacred unity of 1. And,the LORD GOD is ONE, belikewise both open as a male is outerand hidden as a female is inner, Thisis the straight path and GOD isTRUE and is GOD of everythingboth heaven and earth and allbetweenThere is only One God and he isyour God and my God.GOD is Impossible! Praise GOD.

[Niall001]

Quote:Random mutations do not happen everytime someone is born.I want everyone here to understand the kind of dishonesty inherent in the above quoted statement. We all know that in a normal sequence of growth it is not random at all. In-fact it is quite predictable, If it is predictable It is not random. Dishonesty such as this leads to Obsession and these are the twin roots of the mystic. What the hell are you talking about. If you know how to predict all random mutations then there are plently of scientists and doctors who'd love to talk to you? Heck, if you've managed to find a way of predicting mutation, you could have much wider audience to preach to than booktalk.Quote: Any resident Theist that doesn't come forward to stand by those who are believers they are ashamed of their belief and will be judged for being ashamed. Kid, if somebody is about to throw you to a lion for being a theist, I'll be there for you. But don't expect any help of support from me if you make non-sensical arguments on an internet message board. Make decent arguments, I'll support you, just as I would any atheist.And while I'm feeling no shame, I'm (irrationally) certainly feeling a tad embarrassed right now.

[Mr. P]

Quote:You should go back through our other religious threads, I can't think of one member that has not allowed for at least the infinitesimal possibility of a supreme being of some kind or another.Well maybe Mr. P I love being singled out...especially about something like that!Actually I DO allow for the possibility...but admitting that only stokes theists to persist in trying to convince me. The possibility is very small that any god would resemble anything we have been able to conceptualize...and just a bit bigger than that that one exists at all.But the way I feel is that it is better to assume that there is none at all in conducting my life and discussing these topics.Mr. P. Mr. P's place. I warned you!!!The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

[Asana Bodhitharta]

Quote:What the hell are you talking about. If you know how to predict all random mutations then there are plently of scientists and doctors who'd love to talk to you? Heck, if you've managed to find a way of predicting mutation, you could have much wider audience to preach to than booktalk.H5N1 Random Mutations Are Not Random Or Recent Mutations Recombinomics CommentaryMarch 21, 2006As the number of bird flu sequences increase it becomes more apparent that the gentic drift of H5N1 is not due to random mutations, but is due to recombination. The widely held belief that the drifting is due to copying errors becomes less and less tenable as new sequences are made public.I expect a full apology, but I'm sure I won't get one. Here is more to why I posted the above paragraph:The analysis of recombination will generate a paradigm shift in the way molecular evolution is viewed. Influenza is an ideal system for studying molecular evolution. Viruses are generally thought to evolve via shifting and drifting. Shifting occurs when viruses swap genes and drifting was thought to be due to a steady accumulation of mutations. However, rapidly evolving viruses simply recycle old mutations via recombination. This method is much more efficient and follows specific rules. These rules appear to be followed by all viruses, including influenza, HIV, SARS, WNV. These rules allow vaccines to be prepared before viruses emerge. These observations will produce a paradigm shift in the study of molecular evolution via recombination, which will provide solutions for unmet health needsI would not say that mutations are random. Mutations occur because the environment changes and organisms must be able to evolve to survive a continuously changing environment. Thus, Mutations exists to give organisms the ability to evolve to an ever evolving environment. Thus, the fact that all life mutates is not random. Now, if you disagree, you would have to make me aware of live organisms on this planet that do not have the ability to mutate or evolve. There is a purpose behind mutations and other evolutionary processes. The truth about "random" mutation is also here. This is fun as well because it is experiential.www.randommutation.com/darwinianevolution.htm

[Asana Bodhitharta]

Quote:Nick, trust me I'm watching this person. I'm not sure an immediate banning is called for, but people like this bring out the worst in me. What kind of people are you talking about?I already told you I would not be upset if you banned me. The question is, do you really believe in Free Thought as banning people for their point of view is good ole' censorship.Banning has it's purposes such as someone being abusive or threatening to the members of the forum or someone that is even spamming or making massive amounts of posts that are not in the appropriate section. But banning because "People like this bring out the worst in me". Well, you certainly have the power to do so as it is your forum and you have the power to dictate here.But,please if you want Real dialogues with Real people for the benefit of everyone then you really ought to stop threatening to ban people as it suggest an agree with me or else attitude.You've got people coming out for the first time because of the likes or dislikes of me, you should be happy. But, so is man that he is ever ungrateful.