Jesus Christ Sun God or Christ Aquarius? Intellectual effort vs. spiritual revelation

[Interbane]

My view is that the Aquarian water bearer references you cite from the Gospels should be read as an anticipation of this Age of Aquarius as the cosmic marker for the second coming of Jesus Christ.

It could be that this interpretation was what the authors intended. But often I think the ambiguity of such texts allows for a wide variety of plausible interpretations, with no way to determine which ones the authors had intended.

Yet even if your interpretation is what they had in mind, it's entirely different to say that the interpretation is truthful. Meaning, it is true prophecy. I doubt you meant the interpretation was true. You meant it's merely what the authors had in mind. Or am I wrong?

[Robert Tulip]

It could be that this interpretation was what the authors intended. But often I think the ambiguity of such texts allows for a wide variety of plausible interpretations, with no way to determine which ones the authors had intended.

There are certainly ambiguities in reading Biblical millennial prophecy, with a wide range of possible meanings. My view is that the 7000 year timeline from 4000 BC to 3000 AD is the most plausible reading of what the authors had in mind. Against this historical timeframe, the movement of the stars by precession is mainly just like the numbers on the clock, with added symbolic references thrown in such as Jesus as fish for the Age of Pisces.

There are a number of correlations which fit into place with this reading, as well as the Aquarian water bearer references noted by sonoman. This millennial idea fits with the line from the Apostles Creed “he will come again to judge the quick and the dead” and the return story from Acts 1:11, and with the correlation between the seven days of creation in Genesis and the 7000 years produced from the idea in 2 Peter and Psalm 90 that a millennium is a day for God.

Yet even if your interpretation is what they had in mind, it's entirely different to say that the interpretation is truthful. Meaning, it is true prophecy. I doubt you meant the interpretation was true. You meant it's merely what the authors had in mind. Or am I wrong?

I think of the prophecy of the second coming as an imaginative construction on the part of the Biblical authors about a possible future history, like science fiction. Its truth is entirely dependent on whether it resonates with an emerging spirit of the zeitgeist. All the magic is just allegory. If people demand a messiah they will find one. There is a moral depth to the Biblical story that makes messianic millennialism an attractive theory as an explanation of a historical clash between forces of good and evil.

For example, there is an archetypal power in the central place given to works of mercy in the Last Judgment and the Beatitudes, and in the idea of paradigm shift in Paul’s idea that all will be transformed in the twinkling of an eye. If this idea that we are in need of such transformation gains traction, in a way that is sensible and not magical, then we could well find people giving new life to these Biblical ideas.

[sonoman]

It's amusing to see atheist trying to second-guess the spiritual meanings of theistic texts. Robert, you're just unwilling to admit my Christ Aquarius identification of Jesus is far more accurate than your attempts to stay in the mythicists' camp which is tied to identifying Christ as another sun god which he is, no question about it, but it's falls far short of the whole Jewish Messianic theology that you are unwilling to admit is tied to the Sign of Aquarius where the Anointed One/baptism with Living Waters originates. Certainly it does not originate in the sun Sign theology. And again, if the Sun ruled Jewish and Christian theology, why would Jews be commanded on point of death even to worship their highest God on Saturn's Day? And astrologically, the Sun does not rule the Sign of Aquarius, never did. Saturn did, so you're just flat out wrong about thinking Jesus is only a sun god when the evidence of Jewish Saturn/Aquarius water god theology is so prominent in Jewish religion derived Christianity.

[Interbane]

If this idea that we are in need of such transformation gains traction, in a way that is sensible and not magical, then we could well find people giving new life to these Biblical ideas.

The ideas may grow in popularity. But that's true of Nostradamus when the twin towers were destroyed. Even if the transformation is sensible and not magical, any association with biblical ideas would still be magical thinking.

[Robert Tulip]

any association with biblical ideas would still be magical thinking.

Interbane, your comment is exaggerated. Some biblical ideas are not magical.

The Last Judgment in Matthew 25, the vision of a messianic kingdom, presents a moral focus on works of mercy - feeding the hungry, visiting prisoners and the sick, welcoming strangers, clothing the naked and giving water to the thirsty. This is not magical.

The Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5, presents a moral focus on the poor, the meek, the merciful, the righteous, the pure, the prophets and the peacemakers. This is not magical.

[youkrst]

the mythicists' camp which is tied to identifying Christ as another sun god which he is, no question about it, but it's falls far short

no, it was mythicists that pointed out that this passage is a reference to the water bearer

Luke 22:10

He replied, "As you enter the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him to the house that he enters,

house? house of god = temple

which temple YOU ARE says 1Cor 3:16

Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you?

ok christs return, return to where

in you

Heb 9:28

so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

Christ IN YOU the hope of glory.

so it's all metaphor applied within, in you.

he is crucified in you
he is raised again in you
he appears a second time in you

not out there, in here

also the verses Robert mentioned from matthew 25 can be interpreted that way

feeding the hungry,

christ in you is hungry, feed him

visiting prisoners

christ is a prisoner in you

the soul in the body, the spirit in the flesh (our body is clothing for the spirit ie. christ in you)

etc etc

when saw we you naked sick in prison etc ask the disciples

when you did it to the least of these

so initially christ is the least in us, neglected etc

but the last becomes first, the least becomes greatest

all verses find their ultimate fulfillment in you

christ in you the hope of glory

it's a metaphor

[sonoman]

any association with biblical ideas would still be magical thinking.

Interbane, your comment is exaggerated. Some biblical ideas are not magical.

The Last Judgment in Matthew 25, the vision of a messianic kingdom, presents a moral focus on works of mercy - feeding the hungry, visiting prisoners and the sick, welcoming strangers, clothing the naked and giving water to the thirsty. This is not magical.

The Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5, presents a moral focus on the poor, the meek, the merciful, the righteous, the pure, the prophets and the peacemakers. This is not magical.

Robert, you know you wouldn't be into astrology without feeling something of what I'm calling the Christ Aquarian Call, that your quote from Matthew demonstrates admirably. I wish you could make the final leap of "faith" in that path of astrological interest you "naturally" have and step back to see the real magic of spiritual reality that "inspires" wonder and awe that Something is caring for us, for our future. I never could find reason for that awe by reading religious texts in themselves. It had to come from some more legitimately spiritual source which it did for me, many times over, in religious epiphanies of various intensities over a 34 year period. But it's the last round of this spiritual walk of mine that finally opened up the astrological connection to my real life that came concurrent with tracing the Messiah/Christ idea back to the Water Bearer Sign. Living Water to all who thirst. The Holy Grail as the Cup Bearer's ultimate Sign, the voyage across the Waters, the River of Life, that needs guidance, the stripping away of deceit and inhumanity to successfully crossover. The Humanitarian Model I have pointed out exists and evolves through time in the Sign of Aquarius is very real "magic" because it's there right now and always has been there just "naturally"?? placed in our heavens to store humanitarian concern attributes, just "randomly" placed there as an evolved now universally recognized Idea of Humanity, e.g. the Age of Aquarius in the New Age hippie movement I am part of that helped further define the Christ ethic in our times? If Christianity had stayed the same and I never had these new Christian revelations I wouldn't be here defending what cannot be morally defended, the history of Pauline Christians armed with their theology in action in the real world. But God never put me on that Pauline Christian path. Mine was Gnostic from the beginning and so for me, the spiritual magic of the Christ Idea, Logos, is very real and has lost nothing in transmission because God armed me with knowledge of human religious beliefs before uploading the spiritual juice, the religious experiences that alone for this former atheist convinced me of the truth of spiritual reality. No intellectual argument can do it. Spiritual consciousness must be experienced to be believed which is where I should get off my discourse and flat out ask you to think about taking one more step along the magical Christ Aquarian astrological path as one artist to another, as one musician to another, as one existential explorer to another.

Your spiritual/vortex imagery: classic musical notes


My spiritual/vortex imagery: jazz dance

[Interbane]

Interbane, your comment is exaggerated. Some biblical ideas are not magical.

The Last Judgment in Matthew 25, the vision of a messianic kingdom, presents a moral focus on works of mercy - feeding the hungry, visiting prisoners and the sick, welcoming strangers, clothing the naked and giving water to the thirsty. This is not magical.

The Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5, presents a moral focus on the poor, the meek, the merciful, the righteous, the pure, the prophets and the peacemakers. This is not magical.

I know that many biblical ideas are not magical. The magical thinking part is when people's beliefs go beyond mere "wisdom" and into the realm of prophecy. Which is inevitable, given that we're speaking of the bible. The bath water will always adhere to the baby.

[sonoman]

Yes, like God directing me 34 years ago into the Gnostic Christian pathway instead of the Pauline one which is now revealed by the Megiddo archeology to be as devoid of spiritual authority as the Jewish Bible Paul and writers of the New Testament Gospels based on their Story of Jesus Christ upon. Like God directing me to find the difference between EL Elyon and Yahweh in 1998 and then the confirmation of the false Jewish godhead story of Moses and the Sinai Covenant showing the Jewish makeover. Like God instilling in my mind in 1964 that "Egypt would become very important" in my life which it did later when I found the Gnostic Gospels in 1980 and my Christian theological predecessors. Like it did in 2007 when the Egyptian connection revelations began in earnest with the first indicator being the "Ham" and "Cush" ("South", "Dark" and "Upper Egypt") identification one of my original conversion experience in 1979, like the discovering the Celestial Torah in 2012 that lifts the whole Messiah/Christ theology out of the Abrahamic framework's attempt to monopolize it and place the Humanitarian Model in service only to Jews, that spiritual error being corrected by Christian revision 2000 years ago but lost again with Paul's retying Christianity back into the Jewish biblical framework. Prophesy, and not intellectual effort has now established the lasting identification of Jesus Christ as the Humanitarian Model of the Zodiac placed in the Sign of Aquarius where the Living Waters have also been assigned by random fate atheists would say but not us who know God and spiritual reality underpin all Creation. Can any of you atheists explain why the Sign of Aquarius holds the Humanitarian Model of the Man with the Living Waters, that Jesus identifies with in the Gospels? Can any of you atheists find fault with the Humanitarian Model of Christ the Anointed One as a universal model for humanitarianism for all humankind? Celestial Torah Christianity has lifted the Humanitarian Model of the Christ tradition out of its Abrahamic context, out of its Pauline context, which while containing the humanitarian aspects of Christ also contain the earthly territorial control desires of both Jewish and Pauline Christian priesthoods. Celestial Torah Christianity is Christianity in its most purist form--existing as a historical pattern slowly but inevitably the evolution in human consciousness of importance of changing human behavior so that the Good Person becomes the model for society and not the Powerful Person.

Christ will be exalted in the Age of Aquarius because that's the home "House" of Jesus Christ. Where His Father, EL Elyon, is Saturn, God Most High, who rules the Sign of Aquarius. Btw, Uranus comes in as another Ruler after the Copernican astronomy and telescopes revealed more planets than the original Seven Planetary Rulers. Celestial Torah Christianity shows how revolutionary Aquarian theology has become but still it retains and recovers the ancient spiritual wisdom of "As Above, So below". Uranus and Saturn together. Remember, these are Signs, not objects in themselves where God or the Spirit of Christ resides. They are God's Sign Language, God's Signature, Sign-Nature, put there in the beginning to guide us in evolving humanity into God at the "End of Days', i.e. a whole new revelatory based Christian Humanism has arrived for the Age of Aquarius, the Age of Truth, Knowledge, and Humanitarian concern.

[youkrst]

a whole new revelatory based Christian Humanism has arrived for the Age of Aquarius

it has? i must have not been sent the newsletter.

most people i meet at work couldn't give a flying fig for anything jesusy, in fact most of them seem unwilling to communicate beyond the surface at all.

the Age of Truth, Knowledge, and Humanitarian concern.

age of bullshit more like.

Celestial Torah Christianity

how many adherents do you have exactly, 2 or three, a dozen, hundreds?

so that the Good Person becomes the model for society and not the Powerful Person.

a few drone strikes ought to fix that.

i'm cynical sonoman, i fail to see how your meandering word salads are going to help.