Is internet porn ruining our next generation? Is censorship the answer?

[Harry Marks]

I don't want a new agency of Internet censorship aimed at acts between consenting adults because maybe it will help someone have less access to porn.

I respect your concern on the subject, but we have regulation already, looking for child porn, and it doesn't seem to have turned us into a police state. I think we are capable of having standards of decency which really are limited to public actions, of which posting things on the internet is one. Britain has an "opt in" system, as I learned from the citation above. Material is censored unless the household explicitly [get it?] asks to be allowed to see it. So far their society does not seem to have lost its civil liberties from such a system, and you won't have kids gathered around a cell phone, salivating, at school.

[Gnostic Bishop]

If there was something to conspiracy theories, surely we would have found at least one real one in the last bunch of theories.

Who's talking about conspiracy theories?

The costs of government intervention are quite in the open.

Take the war on drugs -- let's keep dangerous drugs off the streets. Sounds nice. What do we get? One of the most destructive policies imaginable. Peoples' lives are being ruined because they smoked a plant without ever committing a violent crime.

Amount spent annually in the U.S. on the war on drugs: More than $51,000,000,000

Number of people arrested in 2013 in the U.S. on nonviolent drug charges: 1.5 million

Number of people arrested for a marijuana law violation in 2013: 693,482

Number of those charged with marijuana law violations who were arrested for possession only: 609,423 (88 percent)
http://www.drugpolicy.org/drug-war-statistics

We are talking of a tool, the internet, hurting our children and young adults. Not drugs that are illegal because the alcohol and tobacco lobbies are good at bribing politicians to keep changes to drug policy off the books.

These days, authorities actively go after drug pushers who target school kids. They basically do not care about what adults are doing with anything but the harder drugs.

I am suggesting we do the same on addictive internet porn.

If 50 % of kids who smoke dope would become addicted, we would act a lot more against those who would target them.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

Even with the best education and blocking tools, the % of harm, to my thinking, would still be too high.

How could you know that unless you knew how effective these things would be? I think you have to admit that you're making an assumption.

When we see things that harm society, there is often as much damage done in the attempt to quell the harm as the harm itself produces. For all you know, government interference could result in black market porn distribution that serves to innovate the informational black market, making it easier to pirate other things. In that case, not only would you not stop porn, but you'd create new issues. Look at China, porn is prevalent there in spite of it being illegal. When people want something harmful that's easy to produce, prohibition isn't the answer.

Yes. Mine is an assumption based on the numbers of men who say that their parents educated them and tried to censor them whom they fooled into believing it worked.

I agree with those men that it is almost impossible to keep secrets from kids and young adults.

It is also why I think whatever we do has to be at the government and ISP levels and even deeper within the web.

Let me add so me of the damage we men are doing to society as a whole t5hanks to our lack of a sense of duty to family.

Note the stats spoken of even in cases where fathers are at home.
https://ca.video.search.yahoo.com/searc ... ction=view

Regards
DL

[Harry Marks]

Gnostic Bishop -

I agree that men's lack of a sense of duty toward family is a heavyweight problem. However, I think stopping the addiction cycle of ever more salacious porn is only a very minor step toward solving this.

Where are the books that help young men understand both that fatherhood is difficult and why fatherhood is worth it? How many television shows have taken this on as a theme? (One thinks of quintessential family shows, like Little House on the Prairie and The Waltons, Bill Cosby (despite his crimes, he created real benefit with that show) and good old Leave it to Beaver. But these days kids are more likely to be seeing dysfunctionality and the Dr. Phil approaches to it).

I have no love in my heart for the Nation of Islam ("Black Muslims") but they did, and do, give men a sense of their own need to behave responsibly. Discipline and structure are not the final, best approach available, but they sure are better than no discipline and no structure.

The Mormons have some really developed popular material on the joys of family. Perhaps you know something of those (I am guessing based on your handle). Some of it is a bit shallow, but it is way deeper than the life of pursuing the next joint or trip to the bar.

[Gnostic Bishop]

Gnostic Bishop -

I agree that men's lack of a sense of duty toward family is a heavyweight problem. However, I think stopping the addiction cycle of ever more salacious porn is only a very minor step toward solving this.

Where are the books that help young men understand both that fatherhood is difficult and why fatherhood is worth it? How many television shows have taken this on as a theme? (One thinks of quintessential family shows, like Little House on the Prairie and The Waltons, Bill Cosby (despite his crimes, he created real benefit with that show) and good old Leave it to Beaver. But these days kids are more likely to be seeing dysfunctionality and the Dr. Phil approaches to it).

I have no love in my heart for the Nation of Islam ("Black Muslims") but they did, and do, give men a sense of their own need to behave responsibly. Discipline and structure are not the final, best approach available, but they sure are better than no discipline and no structure.

The Mormons have some really developed popular material on the joys of family. Perhaps you know something of those (I am guessing based on your handle). Some of it is a bit shallow, but it is way deeper than the life of pursuing the next joint or trip to the bar.

I hear you.

I agree that the media must take it's share of the heat for the way they are not teaching the young as to what there rols should be.

http://www.ted.com/talks/colin_stokes_h ... ch_manhood

From what the experts are saying, the manhood training has to come from where they spend the vast majority of their time. When I grew up, that was from peers and school. Today, most of the time and child rearing is school and the media. Boys are not socializing anywhere near the way my generation did. Either with each other or with girls. Not that we ended that well given the reality of today and all that is lacking in our children.

The duty and capacity of parents has changed, and now, I think our main duty is to insure that the schools and the media is up to the standard and is producing the results we want.

Too many parents think they have control of the rearing but unfortunately this is not so in the vast majority of cases. I wish it was not so but must face reality.

I chose to attack the media and porn addiction but the resistance to change that parents have shown has shown me that parents do not seem to care enough about their children to investigate the problem I showed and just went against change and deny that there is a problem.

I am quite disgusted with my lack of success with this O.P. but hope that most who are in these places are just the older crowd and that the real parents are too busy to frequent such places and are busy doing what most who I have spoken to do not advise.

I sure hope so. Time will tell.

As to religions, some do have better programs than others but too often the price we must pay is homophobia and misogyny and I cannot promote religions for that cause.

Add in that the tipping point of belief is est. to be 2050 and that indicates, along with the stats, that most children do not respect religions and are opting out in droves.

Regards
DL

[Harry Marks]

As to religions, some do have better programs than others but too often the price we must pay is homophobia and misogyny and I cannot promote religions for that cause.

What, homophobia? Misogyny? From the Black Muslims and the Mormons? I'm shocked! (Yeah, there is more than a little.)

It is an interesting phenomenon, having something to do with the need for structure and the way the mind responds to outside authority. If that authority is going to uphold traditional values against temptation and "do what you feel" then evidently it helps if it claims supernatural powers.

Long ago Kierkegaard recognized that good behavior in response to a threat is not really good behavior, and perpetuates the divided loyalties which the threat purports to solve ("Purity of Heart is to Will One Thing"). He also recognized that the Good beckons toward us out of love, asking us to stand on our own feet morally.

Something like that is discussed in the Economist's article on the porn industry from last Friday's edition. Evidently the requirement that British households opt in to get porn only led to most British households opting in. (Oh, dear, what does that say about the state of marital interaction in Britain, today, I wonder?)

By contrast there are now classroom approaches which actively engage porn memes and the expectations created by them, getting kids to do some critical thinking about the nature of what they are being led to assume.

[Gnostic Bishop]

As to religions, some do have better programs than others but too often the price we must pay is homophobia and misogyny and I cannot promote religions for that cause.

What, homophobia? Misogyny? From the Black Muslims and the Mormons? I'm shocked! (Yeah, there is more than a little.)

It is an interesting phenomenon, having something to do with the need for structure and the way the mind responds to outside authority. If that authority is going to uphold traditional values against temptation and "do what you feel" then evidently it helps if it claims supernatural powers.

Long ago Kierkegaard recognized that good behavior in response to a threat is not really good behavior, and perpetuates the divided loyalties which the threat purports to solve ("Purity of Heart is to Will One Thing"). He also recognized that the Good beckons toward us out of love, asking us to stand on our own feet morally.

Something like that is discussed in the Economist's article on the porn industry from last Friday's edition. Evidently the requirement that British households opt in to get porn only led to most British households opting in. (Oh, dear, what does that say about the state of marital interaction in Britain, today, I wonder?)

By contrast there are now classroom approaches which actively engage porn memes and the expectations created by them, getting kids to do some critical thinking about the nature of what they are being led to assume.

Homophobia and misogyny by most of the mainstream religions.

We have come a reasonable way against these in the West but internet porn is not helping our younger generation. Education will help but will not be enough in a lot of cases. I think about 25% of boys will still get into addiction problems if other addictive behavior like cannabis can be used as a gage.

As to the young married. Seems that they are as stupidly into texting while sexting.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/re ... -addiction

Regards
DL

[Harry Marks]

As to the young married. Seems that they are as stupidly into texting while sexting.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/re ... -addiction

I know you posted it before, but this time I read it. Thanks for a good laugh, if somewhat rueful.

[mlmooney89]

I know this post is old (I always find interest in the older posts lol) but I'm jumping in, and yes I'm long winded I apologize. To me if a person is willing to do something (ie being a hooker, shooting porn, and doing drugs) who is the government to tell them no? As long as they aren't hurting others why stop them? In my mind set I'm thinking they are already in this position because they think there are no other ways out why are we making life harder on them by giving them a criminal record? I think drugs should be handled like alcohol is. I do think that prostitution should be watched closely though for sex slaves and such which makes this a fine line since so much of it is forced. Which is another reason I don't think it should be illegal when most of them have a pimp threatening them.

But I digress this is about porn. To me those that complain about porn (mostly insecure women) are a bit petty. I obviously don't have real statistics but I'm pretty sure most men watch it plus a lot of women. To the ones watching it I don't see any harm. The person is doing their own thing by themselves why is that our concern and why girls get so upset is beyond me. I'd rather my fiancé watch that than go and cheat on me.

With that side of it said I move over to the film making side. We do need a system to make sure women are not being forced to do this which is on the same page as a pimp. Other than that if a woman does that and its on her own free will so be it. A lot of the porn stars embrace it I mean they even have those awards for it. Long story short as long as we can make sure the woman aren't being forced why take something people enjoy? It's parents responsibility to keep their kids from the internet not the world's to keep it clean. I for one would be upset if it was taken away and I am not ashamed of that.

[Gnostic Bishop]

You completely ignored the addiction factor and how lives are being hurt.

Internet porn today dehumanizes women and if you are ok with that then you are not showing much in the way of a social conscience.

As all the links I put showed, the ones you did not revue, show how little control parents have of their children's porn access.

Regards
DL