Where has civility gone in American society?

[KindaSkolarly]

Our current fiction selection The Master and Margarita explores cultural polarities in Bolshevik Russia that help to explain current political debates. It is arguably the greatest Russian novel of the last century. People may find the conversation there of some interest even if they have not read the book.

I don't read translations nowadays, not of fiction, and I don't read Russian so... But I will check out the thread and make sure to read the novel at some time in the future.

Virtually everything from the "article" appears to originate from this site: http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=8183

If that is true, the above website was archived in 2012. It refers to the new site below, which is extremely racist. (Might want to use a VPN or Tor before viewing to isolate your computer, yes it's that bad.)
http://www.wvwnews.net/content/

Perfect example of old-school Frankfurt School. Leftists in America today scream "racist," "sexist" and "fascist" at any opposing viewpoint. Leading Frankfurter Saul Alinsky said, "Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Rule 13.

http://www.openculture.com/2017/02/13-r ... icals.html

A major reason for current incivility is bias confirmation. Left and right have separate information channels where one can find everything to confirm and strengthen your current opinions and avoid almost anything that challenges them. Hence the terms "alternate universe", "fake news", and "alternate facts" that describe the isolation between various political camps. It takes an effort to recognize this and attempt to avoid it.

Yes, confirmation bias is always present, but I think a more pertinent psychobabblistic term for our current uncivil situation would be cognitive dissonance. The Clintonistas can't believe that Hillary lost, and they've accordingly taken leave of their senses. Instead of being upset that Bernie Sanders had the nomination stolen from him (by Clinton), they're upset with Trump. Go figure.

DWill makes a good point that the Frankfurt School critical theory helped to open up the narrow dominant American society of the 1950s. However, following the Hegelian method of analysing the dialectical interplay of thesis, antithesis and synthesis, we can see 1950s America as the thesis and the Frankfurt critique of that society as an antithesis. The need now is to find and explain a synthesis.

I think I understand this:

THESIS:
America, halcyon days of the 1950s.

ANTITHESIS:
Introduction of the Frankfurt School with its emphasis on destabilization.

SYNTHESIS:

[Robert Tulip]

DWill makes a good point that the Frankfurt School critical theory helped to open up the narrow dominant American society of the 1950s. However, following the Hegelian method of analysing the dialectical interplay of thesis, antithesis and synthesis, we can see 1950s America as the thesis and the Frankfurt critique of that society as an antithesis. The need now is to find and explain a synthesis.

I think I understand this:
THESIS: America, halcyon days of the 1950s.
ANTITHESIS: Introduction of the Frankfurt School with its emphasis on destabilization.
SYNTHESIS: theredelephants.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... /26887.jpg

No, Antifa is not a synthesis between capitalist and communist mentalities. Antifa is part of the antithesis.

The synthesis here should involve a recognition that cooperation and competition produce antithetical social values, with different type and scale of impact in conflicting ideologies of left and right, and that these values have to be integrated into a coherent whole in order to produce good policy.

By the way, that red elephant site you linked to for the Antifa picture certainly displays strong opinions.

[LanDroid]

THESIS: America, halcyon days of the 1950s.

You also got the thesis wrong, those were not halcyon days. As DWill and Robert said, we needed to "open up the narrow dominant American society of the 1950s."

[KindaSkolarly]

THESIS: America, halcyon days of the 1950s.

You also got the thesis wrong, those were not halcyon days. As DWill and Robert said, we needed to "open up the narrow dominant American society of the 1950s."

I was just harkening back to the Tyler Durden article with my mention of "halcyon" America. The article opens by talking about that, the period of the 1950s. Below is a link to the article, for those who came in late:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-1 ... ed-america

Times have definitely changed. Leftists used to encourage free speech; now they shut it down:

The synthesis here should involve a recognition that cooperation and competition produce antithetical social values, with different type and scale of impact in conflicting ideologies of left and right, and that these values have to be integrated into a coherent whole in order to produce good policy.

I'll try again. How about this:

THESIS - America is a constitutional republic.

ANTITHESIS - Malcontents want to overthrow our elected president using tools like Antifa, BLM, BAMN, Resist and so on.

The values of the two groups can't be reconciled, can't be "integrated." The groups must inevitably fight.

SYNTHESIS - The outcome of the fight will be either a) a continuation of our constitutional government, or b) rule by a confederacy of malcontents.

I'm aware that there are other tools being used to undermine the elected government, but they probably won't work. If the Frankfurters want Donald Trump out of office then they'll have to resort to violence.

[LanDroid]

It's not worth spending much time on that, but in brief you still have it very wrong. For one, the Republican party is starting to fracture on support for Trump so resistance is not all on one side. For another, if Trump is removed by impeachment or the 25th amendment (I doubt either will happen), our constitutional republic will continue.

[Interbane]

If the Frankfurters want Donald Trump out of office then they'll have to resort to violence.

Eating popcorn is sufficient.

[KindaSkolarly]

Tomorrow's the day the revolution begins, according to the New York Times:



That's the beginning, tomorrow. Then on Nov 8 we get a major event in The Revolution. The one-year anniversary of Trump's election, so leftists plan to "Scream Helplessly at the Sky":



The thing for the Nov 4 protests was on page 5 of the Times, an ad buy of about 100k, cash probably coming from former Nazi collaborator George Soros. But I don't know who's footing the bill for the sky screaming campaign.

[LanDroid]

Here's some more to add to your hysteria legitimate concerns. In addition to Antifa protests, a massive electromagnetic pulse (EMP) will happen tomorrow 11/4/17, completely shutting down electronic, electrical, and communication grids over a wide area, allowing the United Nations to take over the United States! A UN takeover has been predicted for 60 years! We have emails and photos from the intertubes - it's true!

http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2017/ ... ember-4th/

[Robert Tulip]

How about this:
THESIS - America is a constitutional republic.
ANTITHESIS - Malcontents want to overthrow our elected president using tools like Antifa, BLM, BAMN, Resist and so on.

The values of the two groups can't be reconciled, can't be "integrated." The groups must inevitably fight.

SYNTHESIS - The outcome of the fight will be either a) a continuation of our constitutional government, or b) rule by a confederacy of malcontents.

I introduced this dialectic theme to help put critique of the Frankfurt School into a better logical framework. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic ... _dialectic states "Hegelian dialectic, usually presented in a threefold manner, [has] three dialectical stages of development: a thesis, giving rise to its reaction, an antithesis, which contradicts or negates the thesis, and the tension between the two being resolved by means of a synthesis. In more simplistic terms, one can consider it thus; problem → reaction → solution."

I have noticed with discussion of the Frankfurt School that they are intensely polarising within intellectual political debate. Some of their opponents are just anti-Semites, but it is notable that the critique in the opening post here steers clear of that foolish line of attack. The whole problem of the role of universities as thought leaders and political laboratories is highly contested. My view is that this role has a strong long term influence, as university teaching becomes part of school curriculum in the march through the institutions. Such processes always need robust logical contest.

The point about the historical dialectic is that a synthesis will reconcile the good points of the thesis and antithesis as part of the process of cultural evolution. I don't think we are yet at a synthesis point, since neither left nor right has enough respect for the other to allow oxygen for a synthetic argument.

I saw a new word today, "identitarian". These are defined as people who support "political mobilization organized around group characteristics such as race, gender, and sexuality, as opposed to party, ideology, or pecuniary interest." Steve Bannon reckons the identitarians gifted the Presidency to Trump by turning off ordinary voters, who fear threats to values and liberty.

[Harry Marks]

I don't know who's footing the bill for the sky screaming campaign.

Well, there's this to say for screaming helplessly at the sky: it doesn't cost much!