Epistemology and Biblical Evidence

[Interbane]

You are focused on much too narrow a question. You want me to cite claims, 1, 2, 3, 4, .... That reminds me of something Chesterton said once of the narrowness of the atheist mind. He should know as he was an apologist for atheism prior to his conversion.

You mistake narrowness for attention to detail and focus. Such things are virtues. As opposed to hoping an overarching narrative would constitute an argument. Yes, I would very much like you to be specific.

Challenge, I might drop a claim if you can come up with an original criticism of a Bible story.

I do not need a new criticism. As I've said, this discussion was over before it started for one reason; lack of support for your claims. An opinion of a lawyer is most certainly not support. Neither is quoting another text which has no support.

You cannot account for the Talmud record of events happening at the time of the crucifixion.

Repeating that ad nauseum won't make it true. I gave you the best explanation there is. Your refusal to accept it shows that you're in denial. Same for the prophecy.

Unless you come up with something substantial I'm done here. You've fallen back on ignoring the answers I give as if they are invalid. They are only invalid in the sense that they don't merge with your worldview. The root of the problem lies in your worldview, not my answers.

[stahrwe]

You are focused on much too narrow a question. You want me to cite claims, 1, 2, 3, 4, .... That reminds me of something Chesterton said once of the narrowness of the atheist mind. He should know as he was an apologist for atheism prior to his conversion.

You mistake narrowness for attention to detail and focus. Such things are virtues. As opposed to hoping an overarching narrative would constitute an argument. Yes, I would very much like you to be specific.

Challenge, I might drop a claim if you can come up with an original criticism of a Bible story.

I do not need a new criticism. As I've said, this discussion was over before it started for one reason; lack of support for your claims. An opinion of a lawyer is most certainly not support. Neither is quoting another text which has no support.

You cannot account for the Talmud record of events happening at the time of the crucifixion.

Repeating that ad nauseum won't make it true. I gave you the best explanation there is. Your refusal to accept it shows that you're in denial. Same for the prophecy.

Unless you come up with something substantial I'm done here. You've fallen back on ignoring the answers I give as if they are invalid. They are only invalid in the sense that they don't merge with your worldview. The root of the problem lies in your worldview, not my answers.

I predicted you would contrive this excuse several pages ago. It is the same old story, Deny, Deny, Deny, force me to defend, defend, defend, then claim deadlock because we aren't making progress and declare a stalemate. Unfortunately, we have two tracks progressing, albeit slowly, perhaps glacially, but progressing none the less. The first is the evidence itself in two major Claims. #1 that the Talmud (an extra-Biblical document of ancient origin and great respect), provides insight into events which occurred at the time of the curcifixion of Christ. The circumstances of the events recorded in the Talmud are of such serousness and charater that they almost certainly would not have been fabricated.

The second, involves a prophecy regarding the date for the refounding of the nation of Israel. The prophecy establishes the time frame at 907,200 days and corresponds exactly with the UN Resolution in 1948 granting the Jews the right to return to Israel.

Neither of these examples involve circular reasoning or rationalization.

I have also provided information by a world renowned ME that the Biblical account of the crucifixion through the hands of Jesus is in fact possible.

I think the discussion must remain open until you either cede these or impeach them.

[Azrael]

The Biblical account of Israel is a farce and holds no more water than a paper bag full of holes. You must be a Hagee follower. Nothing worse than being in denial is it? Your brainwashing is complete join the Fundies and they will complete your training!

[stahrwe]

The Biblical account of Israel is a farce and holds no more water than a paper bag full of holes. You must be a Hagee follower. Nothing worse than being in denial is it? Your brainwashing is complete join the Fundies and they will complete your training!

The polite thing to do would be to ask if I followed Hagee. In fact, I do not. Additionally, I watch no Christian television. The exception was a six part series on Chesterton, and of course my weekly Hebrew class though that is definitely not Christian and barely touches on the Jewish 'tradition'.

The ordinary mortal would be humbled being wrong so often but it doesn't seem to affect you.

Once again your post was fully inflated but contained nothing addressing the two points on the table.

[Azrael]

"If anyone should wish to know the truth with respect to you Christians, he will find your impiety to be made up partly of the Jewish audacity, and partly of the indifference and confusion of the Gentiles, and that you have put together not the best, but the worst characteristics of them both."

– Emperor/philosopher Julian (361-363)

"The Law of God? Look at it, it's a pack of lies from the lying pen of Scribes."

– Jeremiah, 8.8.

The ordinary mortal would be humbled being wrong so often but it doesn't seem to affect you.

Not wrong. I can see through the lies your pitiful religion portrays and you could to if you took off those rose colored glasses. Your saviour has not returned that lie has already been exposed, we are all still here, another lie exposed, no rapture, ooops! Thats a Christian fabrication sorry cannot blame that one on the Bible...

[stahrwe]

"If anyone should wish to know the truth with respect to you Christians, he will find your impiety to be made up partly of the Jewish audacity, and partly of the indifference and confusion of the Gentiles, and that you have put together not the best, but the worst characteristics of them both."

– Emperor/philosopher Julian (361-363)

Technically this is off topic but your post is humorous enough to address. Good one citing Julian. He was emperor during the transition when Rome was becoming predominately Christian. Julian earned for himself the nickname, 'Julian the Apostate' as he tried to stand against Christianity.

On his way to Constantinople Julian then officially declared himself a follower of the old pagan gods. With Constantine and his heirs having been Christian, and Julian having, while still under Constantius officially still adhered to the Christian faith, this was an unexpected turn of events.

It was his rejection of Christianity which gave him his name in history as Julian 'the Apostate'.
Shortly after, in December AD 361, Julian entered Constantinople as the sole emperor of the Roman world. Some of Constantius II's supporters were executed, others were exiled. But Julian's accession was by no means such a bloody one as when the three sons of Constantine had began their reign.

The Christian church was now refused the financial privileges enjoyed under previous regimes, and Christians were excluded from the teaching profession. In an attempt to undermine the Christian position, Julian favoured the Jews, hoping they might rival the Christian faith and deprive it of many of its followers. He even considered the reconstruction of the Great Temple at Jerusalem.

http://www.roman-empire.net/collapse/julian-index.html

I think this dispenses with Julian. Now for the real comedy.

"The Law of God? Look at it, it's a pack of lies from the lying pen of Scribes."

– Jeremiah, 8.8.

The ordinary mortal would be humbled being wrong so often but it doesn't seem to affect you.

Not wrong. I can see through the lies your pitiful religion portrays and you could to if you took off those rose colored glasses. Your saviour has not returned that lie has already been exposed, we are all still here, another lie exposed, no rapture, ooops! Thats a Christian fabrication sorry cannot blame that one on the Bible...

Your inclusion of a quote from Jeremiah magnificently demonstrates three points:

Most of the criticism of the Bible is by people who have no clue what they are talking about. They are the prime examples of the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

Most of the criticism of the Bible by DK'ers is based on verses taken out of context. That violates another priciple of hermeneutics. Jeremiah was known as 'the weeping prophet'. Most of his ministry was spent doing 'in your face' condemantion of the powerful in Israel both polical and religious. Consequently he was very unpopular with the leaders. The fact that his books survive is a testimony to the honesty of the Bible. In another society the leaders would have made sure that Jeremiah's writings were destroyed. But the Jews, though they hated the messenger, knew the message was from God so it had to be preserved.

Third, you demonstrate the necessity of reading the Bible before you criticise or use it to criticise Christianity. Doing it the way you are guarantees that you will be wrong and that you will make yourself look foolish in the process. Thank you for making my point about the need for a discussion of the Bible book by book so well.

[Azrael]

And your point is? That you do not have a point...Interbane God boy is all yours for a while I got better things to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[stahrwe]

And your point is? That you do not have a point...Interbane God boy is all yours for a while I got better things to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That you can't trust your sources of material. They don't know what they are talking about or are deliberately misleading you. You need to stop relying on internet posts against Christianity, or, if you do use them, check the claim first. At least take the time to look up the Bible verses and check out the characters.

So far, no on has impeached my evidence.

[Azrael]

Oh like you don't use the stuff........Get a life Fundie! Your money keeps you here any place else you'd have been gone for trolling!

[stahrwe]

"It is impossible to govern the world without God and the Bible. Of all the dispositions and habits that lead to political prosperity, our religion and morality are the indispensable supporters. Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that our national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."

George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796.