what purposes do myths serve?

[Chris OConnor]

DWill

You're misinterpreting my words, but only because I wasn't very clear.

Dissident, you're not commenting on something that some of us find very important. Myths are fictitious stories. Now, please comment on this. Forget for a moment the value that the fictitious story provides. I'd like to address the idea that myths are stories about things that never really happened.

What I am saying is...

Dissident, you're failing to comment on something that some of us find very important, namely that myths are fictitious and untrue accounts. They may have entertainment or educational value, but the fact remains that they are stories and nothing more. The telling of the story causes an effect, in some instances, much the same as the administration of a placebo can cause an effect, but the fact remains that the myth or placebo isn't the agent of change. It is the belief in the myth or placebo that causes the change.

Would you agree with this?

[Chris OConnor]

I'll go back to something Dissident said earlier...

Why use the term merely here Chris? To me, the term is used to diminish the importance of something...to minimize and trivialize.

My response probably came across as if I think myths are useless and disgusting things that we should remove from our lives if we ever want to better ourselves. This isn't the case at all. I just want us to be honest and admit that myths are fiction and not to be considered true accounts of events that transpired in the real world. They are fables, tales or lessons. They have value on many different levels, but we harm our ability to think clearly when we blur the line between myth and reality. I love mythology and the lessons imparted, but I recognize the value of being intellectual honest and saying, "While this is a wonderful story it is merely a story and not a true account of actual events."

So again...

Why use the term merely here Chris? To me, the term is used to diminish the importance of something...to minimize and trivialize.

Swap out "myth" with "placebo" and you'll probably understand how I feel. Imagine a scenario where a group of doctors are noting the benefits of a particular drug on a patient. One doctor could chime in with, "yes, but that drug is merely a placebo." The choice of the word "merely" only means that the drug isn't the agent of change. The drug isn't anything inherently powerful or effective. The agent of change was the belief that the drug would cause the desired effect. The belief caused the change.

If the placebo caused the desire change isn't the placebo valuable? No, the placebo isn't valuable at all. It is perhaps a sugar pill. The value is in the belief. That particular placebo could be swapped out for another placebo and the same effect could be triggered.

Ok, gotta go to an appointment....

[DWill]

You're misinterpreting my words, but only because I wasn't very clear.

Yes, sorry about that. Your words were clear enough.
DWill

[DWill]

If once upon a time, myths served as a primary means of explaining natural phenomena, absent science, I'd venture to say this is not often the case today. The fact that myths are "untrue stories" presents no danger in itself. We find meaning in fiction, after all, meaning that can be at least as profound as scientific meaning.
DWill

[Dissident Heart]

Chris: Dissident, you're failing to comment on something that some of us find very important, namely that myths are fictitious and untrue accounts. They may have entertainment or educational value, but the fact remains that they are stories and nothing more. The telling of the story causes an effect, in some instances, much the same as the administration of a placebo can cause an effect, but the fact remains that the myth or placebo isn't the agent of change. It is the belief in the myth or placebo that causes the change. Would you agree with this?

Thanks for the carefully constructed question Chris...I think you have gotten to directly to the point of our disagreement. To preface, I think you are operating from within a particular mythic system as well...the myth of the primary importance of the truth: a mythology surrounding a sacred and holy obligation to be truthful and honor the truth above all things. This myth gives your life meaning, provides order within the chaos, and keeps you connected to a primal cause that demands accountability no matter the situation or circumstance: surrounded by a world of dissimulation, falsehoods, fakeries and lies...you are able to find certainty and direction, purpose and meaning, a story of life that provides an important role and determining character worthy of praise and honor.

Perhaps the irony, and perhaps none of us escape it, is that your myth of truth is seemingly unaware of the truth about your myth.

I am never able to sit and respond like I wish I could Chris...please forgive me...I will get back to what I can...we are celebrating Naomi's 1st birthday tomorrow, and life is beyond busy these days.

[Chris OConnor]

Well, I wish her a happy 1st birthday.

[Robert Tulip]

Chris: Dissident, you're failing to comment on something that some of us find very important, namely that myths are fictitious and untrue accounts. They may have entertainment or educational value, but the fact remains that they are stories and nothing more. The telling of the story causes an effect, in some instances, much the same as the administration of a placebo can cause an effect, but the fact remains that the myth or placebo isn't the agent of change. It is the belief in the myth or placebo that causes the change. Would you agree with this?

Thanks for the carefully constructed question Chris...I think you have gotten to directly to the point of our disagreement. To preface, I think you are operating from within a particular mythic system as well...the myth of the primary importance of the truth: a mythology surrounding a sacred and holy obligation to be truthful and honor the truth above all things. This myth gives your life meaning, provides order within the chaos, and keeps you connected to a primal cause that demands accountability no matter the situation or circumstance: surrounded by a world of dissimulation, falsehoods, fakeries and lies...you are able to find certainty and direction, purpose and meaning, a story of life that provides an important role and determining character worthy of praise and honor.
Perhaps the irony, and perhaps none of us escape it, is that your myth of truth is seemingly unaware of the truth about your myth. I am never able to sit and respond like I wish I could Chris...please forgive me...I will get back to what I can...we are celebrating Naomi's 1st birthday tomorrow, and life is beyond busy these days.

Rollo May defines myth as 'the stories that give meaning to our lives.' So Dissident Heart is on to something important in describing scientific truth as a myth. Calling science a myth in this way does not impugn the fact that science provides an accurate representation of objective reality, which it does. Rather, it points out that modernity (positivism) considers there is no meaning outside science, and that science provides a sufficient narrative framework for human life. However, this is just not the case

[Ophelia]

I've been following this discussion, thanks a lot Robert for this informative and thought-provoking post, and among recent posters, thanks to DWill and Dissident Heart, I enjoyed reading your posts.

[Frank 013]

RT
Getting back to the discussion between Chris and DH, DH is actually right that the modern theory of truth has a strong mythic content.

I don't think that Chris is actually saying that there are not any myths associated with science, (but you will need to ask him to be certain) but I think he is saying that modern scientists are not perpetuating the myth.

Unlike the church whose leaders knowingly make false claims to continue the myths associated with their doctrine.

Later

[DWill]

I've been following this discussion, thanks a lot Robert for this informative and thought-provoking post.

I heartily agree. This is exceptionally comprehensive.
DWill