The Bible's Buried Secrets part II; Atheist Myth debunked and Israel Finkelstein proven wrong.

[stahrwe]

That's just it, you guys don't seem to get it. These alleged confirmations are nothing of the sort. Under further investigated they fold. And Avalos made that blatantly clear.

The house of David inscription doesn't in any way prove the historicity of the biblical account. It isn't enough to prove such a thing. It only shows that well after the fact, and well after such mythology had been around, someone made an inscription having to do with the house of David. This is not something to sound the trumpets of absolute historicity over BTW. Like the James Ossuary and other such folly and error, these two so-called David and Solomon artifacts are highly suspect and in no way prove any such historicity. That remains the bottom line.

You have faith, and that's all you have at the end of the day. Why even push for the historicity in the first place? Are you guys suggesting that more than faith is needed to legitimize the bible? You need a combo of hard factual evidence and faith? What, then, do you consider the value of faith to be???

ok, now you are accusing the achaeologists shown and Nova of engaging in a consipiriacy to validate the Bible? The Nova show for this thread included Finkelstein, he just didn't have anthing to back his premise up other than the obsurd idea of picking up pottery pieces that were supposed to be 3,000 years old just lying on top of the ground. The others compared excavated pottery and plans with Egyptian and other cultures as well as references to Pharaohs.

How about a transcript of Avalos?

Your final paragraph smacks of desperation and with good reason dump Finkelstein, Avalos and the others before you have to pull a Harold Camping.

[stahrwe]

It's already over Stahrwe. Finkelstein has long since red ass bitch slapped these apologetic biblical archaeologists. The minimalist camp has all of the superior knowledge and power in this field of research.

"We are the champions my friend, and we'll keep on fighting till the end.....no time for loosers cause we are the champions..." lol

Tat, you left off the end of the verse:

"No time for losers cause we are the champions, of the world."

That is actually an interesting choice of song for our discussion as we recognize Satan as the prince of the power of the air and he has currently been given free access to the physical world, what we refer to as "flesh" with respect to humans. But your claim of victory is premature, something you are well practiced at doing, as the war continues. You want to settle for being champion of the world? Pretty shortsighted.

[tat tvam asi]

What war exactly?

The battle between biblical archaeologists and the minimalist camp?

The minimalists triumph over these believers running around with spades and shovels trying to claim each and every little find as verification of the bibles truth. It's been over for a good century now Stahrwe. As Avalos says, archaeology is actually the downfall of biblical claims. Anyone in the know is well aware of that. So who in the hell are you trying to appeal to here with this ridiculous thread? This program does not represent Finkelstein in any clear type of way. They are using him as a strawman of sorts, something to flash the viewing audience and then try and knock down. The whole thing set up to try and bolster a believer based audience, which, obviously, is why you've tracked down the text for this program and created this strawman thread...

[stahrwe]

What war exactly?

The battle between biblical archaeologists and the minimalist camp?

The minimalists triumph over these believers running around with spades and shovels trying to claim each and every little find as verification of the bibles truth. It's been over for a good century now Stahrwe. As Avalos says, archaeology is actually the downfall of biblical claims. Anyone in the know is well aware of that. So who in the hell are you trying to appeal to here with this ridiculous thread? This program does not represent Finkelstein in any clear type of way. They are using him as a strawman of sorts, something to flash the viewing audience and then try and knock down. The whole thing set up to try and bolster a believer based audience, which, obviously, is why you've tracked down the text for this program and created this strawman thread...

I refer you to the Bible to understand the context of the term 'war' as I use it. You should be familiar with that term from your SDA years.

As for Finkelstein, Nova broadcast several parts of their interview with him. Finkelstein explained his methodology which involved a dozen or so students walking grids and picking up pieces of pottery and other artificats they found lying on the surface. He seems fairly represented to me. If Finkelstein has any issues with his representation by Nova by all means post them.

I track down texts because I find the videos frequently make points which I want to review in further depth. Nova makes their transcripts freely available, your post videos no at all as far as I can see. Is Avalos a buddy of Murdock's? I bet he is or is someone she relies on. She shouldn't and neither should you.

Helmut Koester, Morison Research Professor of Divinity and Winn Research Professor of Ecclesiastical History at Harvard Divinity School. He reviewed the book The End of Biblical Studies, by Hector Avalos for BAR and said the following:

Perhaps I should not be surprised that a scholar who has advocated a Biblical nihilism and has recommended that Biblical Studies should be ‘tasked with eliminating completely the influence of the Bible in the modern world’ would launch an attack on the discipline of Biblical archaeology and on a magazine that is Biblical archaeology’s most important outlet...What would be required for such an endeavor, however, is knowledge of the realities of American religious life and Biblical scholarship in general, as well as the details of the controversial issues in present debates. Unfortunately Professor Avalos reveals a deep ignorance in both respects.

Helmut Koester, Biblical Archeological Review, pp. 10 and 12, September/October vol 34/5 2008.

[tat tvam asi]

The best response to the text of old program "The Bibles Buried Secrets" is obviously the text to "The Bible Unearthed", Finkelstein's book after which a newer program has aired: http://ebookee.org/The-Bible-Unearthed- ... 30017.html



It's a complete and total over overview of the situation. Here's the full documentary based on the book:

[Robert Tulip]

Nietzsche puts it eloquently in his Antichrist where he says ‘in the son that becomes conviction which in the father was still a lie’.

Judging from Nietsche's own deluded end I'm not sure I'd go with his perception of reality here. After declaring God dead and imagining existence without God, he spent the last thirteen years of his life in insanity cared for by his religious mother... Eloquence does not imply truthfulness.

One can say all they will about the evolution of myth but it does't have any bearing on the the transmission of history as recorded in the Bible, and confirmed by archaeology and manuscript evidence.

Dawn, your comment here is pure fallacious ad hominem rhetoric. You should be ashamed of stooping to such deceptive tactics. Nietzsche's mental illness cannot be used to rebut specific arguments in his philosophy. Of course the evolution of myth has "bearing on the transmission of history as recorded in the Bible". Your conclusion that there is no relation between observed patterns in cultural evolution and Biblical narrative is baseless.

I explained the text you quote as follows: "What this means is that the evolution of culture typically sees one generation who use stories for social purposes, conscious that the stories are invented, but their successors increasingly find that admitting the invention is harder than pretending the stories are true, and so the fantasy petrifies into ideology and dogma."

This is a psychological insight into the evolution of Christianity. Originally, writers knew their ideas were allegory, and expected their readers also to understand that they were allegory, even while the literal story was given out as truth to the masses. However, over time, the standing of these texts was enhanced by the delusion that they were historically based. Finkelstein has proved how much Biblical material is erroneous.

You imply with your slur on Nietzsche that anyone who follows this argument through to its logical conclusions is mentally ill, and that conventional faith protects people from insanity - 'Believe it or you will go crazy'. That is just bullying. The real pathology is in the deluded beliefs of orthodoxy.

[Interbane]

Dawn, your comment here is pure fallacious ad hominem rhetoric. You should be ashamed of stooping to such deceptive tactics.

A common denominator with the very religious is a very real and lifelong ignorance of the correct way to think. How else could such delusion last an entire life? Stahrwe has vocally and adamantly demanded that his fallacious arguments aren't fallacious. To him, it's absurd that the very same reasoning he's used his entire life is now being incriminated. For some reason, these people haven't been exposed to critical thinking. It's common knowledge(I would think) that logic does indeed have infinite "flaws". Which aren't flaws, but merely situations where logic should not be used. Stahrwe found an example of one of these flaws and believes he's found his excuse to continue to commit fallacies. I don't think you'll convince anyone as old as Dawn and Stahrwe that logic should be utilized in their thoughts. Logic is much weaker than their faith, and will be dismissed in a heartbeat if/when the two aren't in agreement.

I'd venture to guess that Dawn has no idea that her comments on Nietzsche are false. Such heuristics in arriving at conclusions are commonplace, and that very fact makes is seem legitimate.

[stahrwe]

The best response to the text of old program "The Bibles Buried Secrets" is obviously the text to "The Bible Unearthed", Finkelstein's book after which a newer program has aired: http://ebookee.org/The-Bible-Unearthed- ... 30017.html



It's a complete and total over overview of the situation. Here's the full documentary based on the book:

I suppose it is a waste of time to ask for a transcript but it is reasonable to ask who produced these videos and when and where were they aired?

thanks.

[tat tvam asi]

The tv program covers the content of the book, which is free to download and is right there in the quote you've just posted. Download it. Read it, use your dragon software, do what you must but there it is ripe for taking in the very quote you've just posted. I need to check but I believe the program aired in 09. I remember seeing The Bibles Buried Secrets and was curious about Finkelstein only to finally see The Bible Unearthed which gave a much more well rounded coverage of the issue. The solomons gates issue is very old news. They found more and more of them, ranging up to centuries apart and in pagan built regions. In the end the gates merely display a fashionable style of the time periods and in no way provide anything close to what the biblical archaeologists started out claiming. It's all there in the book text and tv program discussing the book. And as for David, no one can sure. The inscription can be taken as proof of a king David of some type, but nothing remotely close to biblical portrayal. No large kingdom at all but rather the exact opposite. Even then, the king in question could have been named after the mythic god for all we know, as many kings were. There's nothing but a large range of uncertainty, bottom line.

[stahrwe]

Standby