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Preachers, Priests quitely embrace the Christ myth!!!

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Frank 013
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Re: Preachers, Priests quitely embrace the Christ myth!!!

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Stahrwe
I don't consider atheists to be evil and I don't know anyone who does.
That’s a relief… however it does not change a few things…

One... there are many Christians out there that do consider us evil… I have heard from two different sources and a manual that an inmate had to study to become a minister, that showed that the church does misrepresent what we are… and all three sources labeled us as immoral at the very least… one church called us agents of Satan… if that is not saying that we are evil I don’t know what is.

Two… you have at least downplayed bigotry towards atheists (it could be argued that you condone it) even though we do not condone bigotry of any kind.

Three… some Christians have and are being persecuted… that does not justify atheist persecution from them.

Four… The idea that atheists are immoral and evil does lead to bigotry and the intolerance of your religion is in and of itself evil.

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Re: Preachers, Priests quitely embrace the Christ myth!!!

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BTW Strawbe, Murdock has gone on record more than once taking issue with people calling her an atheist. She has a entire book about that topic called "The Gospel According to Acharya S". In it she discusses her personal thoughts on God and how she interprets the concept. So to classify her with Dawkins or Harris is a complete error on your part, the product of your ignorance.

As far as Christian persecution in the early years goes, it wasn't nearly as intense or widespread as modern apologists blow it up to have been. And secondly, they were only being persecuted in the first place because they were going around blabbling the ancient solar mysteries of virgin birth, death-recurrection-ascension, etc., to the unitiated general public, which, was a capital offense in those days. They were dead set on blabbling these mysteries regardless of the law of the land in those days. So a few of them paid the price for it.
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Re: Preachers, Priests quitely embrace the Christ myth!!!

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Frank 013 wrote:
Stahrwe
I don't consider atheists to be evil and I don't know anyone who does.
That’s a relief… however it does not change a few things…

One... there are many Christians out there that do consider us evil… I have heard from two different sources and a manual that an inmate had to study to become a minister, that showed that the church does misrepresent what we are… and all three sources labeled us as immoral at the very least… one church called us agents of Satan… if that is not saying that we are evil I don’t know what is.

Two… you have at least downplayed bigotry towards atheists (it could be argued that you condone it) even though we do not condone bigotry of any kind.

Three… some Christians have and are being persecuted… that does not justify atheist persecution from them.

Four… The idea that atheists are immoral and evil does lead to bigotry and the intolerance of your religion is in and of itself evil.

Later
Your buddies; Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, et al do not help the perception of atheists as being evil. Someone with some sense should be your headliner, not those jerks.

You are right that Christian persecution doesn't justify atheist persecution but that wasn't my point was it? My point was, if you believe in what you believe don't complain if you take some knocks for it and definately don't evade the knocks.

I didn't downplay the persecution per se, what I said was that, at least the contemporary examples cited at BT are small potatoes.
n=Infinity
Sum n = -1/12
n=1

where n are natural numbers.
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tat tvam asi
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Re: Preachers, Priests quitely embrace the Christ myth!!!

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This was in response to an apologist trying to use Christian Persecution to refute the Alexandrian Hypothesis for Christian origins:
DM Murdock wrote:Firstly, what "persecution" are you talking about? And who said that Rome created Christianity? That's a straw man.

I have laid out the steps as they were taken, one after another, over a period of decades to centuries. There is no "gaping hole."

The stories of "persecutions" are largely apocryphal - as I most definitely do spell out in my books, especially The Christ Conspiracy, in which I pretty much covered all bases. There is no evidence of the massive martyrdom claimed later by Christian apologists. During the first century, Christians were barely heard of, and the Neronian persecution is a myth unsubstantiated by any evidence.

It is not until the second century that we start hearing about Christians who are fanatical about their faith, writing long apologies and polemics. Naturally, the Pagan priesthood got its hackles up and shot back, and some Christians were evidently attacked for their "atheism." But still there were no real persecutions as depicted in dramatic Christian tradition.

Christianity was created largely at Alexandria by Jews/Therapeuts, not Romans, but was becoming a concerted effort in the loosely knit brotherhood throughout the Mediterranean. The Roman elite factored into the picture as part of a general effort to combine Judaism with Paganism, as apparently exemplified by Vespasian and his wealthy compadres. You can be sure that this elite faction was being opposed by many others within the Roman government both in Italy and elsewhere, including Egypt.

To see a "gaping hole" you would need to have the erroneous concept that Vespasian or some other wealthy influential person just woke up one day and decided to create a new religion, and then everyone went along with it. As I show in great detail in the long chapter in my book Christ in Egypt about Alexandria, there were many factions within this widespread brotherhood that extended around the Mediterranean. Many of these factions wanted to be top dog; hence, they jockeyed continually for position. The numerous conflicts between Orthodox and Gnostic Christians during the second century demonstrate this point - as well as the prominence of the Christian effort, without so-called persecutions. Many of these individuals were leaders of the Church, which was already powerful and had bases around the Mediterranean, such as I also clearly spell out in my books.

The notion of a widespread persecution of Christian peasants by the nasty Roman hierarchy is a myth that goes along with the purported supernatural genesis of Christianity from a Jewish messiah in the backwater of Judea. It didn't happen. If you're talking about the immediate apostles of Christ, such as Peter, purportedly dying for their faith, there is no credible evidence that any of them existed, and Peter, for one, appears to be a remake of the Roman god Jupiter. The god with the 12 was a common motif long prior to the common era, and there pantheons of 12 gods in both the Greek and Roman religions.

As I also spell out in my books, some of the "Christians" (brotherhood members) who were "persecuted" were likely assailed because they were blabbing the mysteries, the revelation of which to the vulgar populace constituted a capital offense.

If the scenario of poor, powerless Christians being attacked and stifled by the all-powerful Romans were true, how do we explain the prominence of Justin Martyr and all the rest of the early Church fathers, whose works we possess to this day, while their Pagan competitors' writings are all lost?

In order to understand the dynamics of this development, you must disabuse yourself of the Christian tradition of supernatural genesis as depicted in the New Testament and movies, followed by the dramatic depictions of people willing to die for their faith shortly after Christ's death, as well as the extraordinary springing up of churches all over the place, as in Paul's epistles. As I've demonstrated, this scenario is entirely unsubstantiated. The fact that there were so many "churches" already by Paul's time is indicative of the brotherhood's preexistence, as well as its wealth and power.

The struggles between factions came about significantly with the historicizing and Judaizing efforts, which were opposed by other factions, such as Gnostics like Marcion. Marcion was certainly persecuted - possibly even murdered - for his attempts at stopping these particular efforts within the Christian movement. But his persecutors were other Christians. In fact, Marcion was essentially the head of the Roman church for a time, producing the first New Testament. His effort was wrestled away and redacted to produce the Gospel of Luke, and, by the end of the second century, the rest of the canonical New Testament.
Last edited by tat tvam asi on Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Preachers, Priests quitely embrace the Christ myth!!!

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You are right that Christian persecution doesn't justify atheist persecution but that wasn't my point was it? My point was, if you believe in what you believe don't complain if you take some knocks for it and definately don't evade the knocks.
If the 'knocks' were actual reasoned arguments, there'd be no problem whatsoever. Instead it's nothing more than brainless bigotry. But the knocks are not the "reason" some atheists "evade" debates.

If Murdock could go on the radio and take callers and answer questions, that would be phenomenal. If you instead wish to surround Murdock with people who are as incorrigible as yourself, it's as much as waste of time as vacuuming a tree trunk. It's utterly useless. You're well aware that it's useless Stahrwe, but you continue to disregard the futility of it so you can lay blame for evasiveness. I would say the proper term is "avoid" rather than "evade". Evasion implies there is a substantial offensive that must be dodged. Which isn't the case. Every argument you've presented on BT has been a wet noodle. Avoidance is like taking a detour around a nuisance.

I certainly won't sit in front of a pile of bricks at home depot and discuss why reason is more important than faith. The bricks would likely listen more than a room full of Stahrwe's, but it would still be an exercise in futility. At least on the radio, there are ears to listen that aren't plugged with cotton. I'd think a radio broadcast would open a person up for even greater criticism, there would be a larger pool of intelligent rebuttals and questions, which is more of an actual hotseat.

I agree that I'd like to hear this discussion in mainstream media. Put Murdock on the radio or on TV.
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Re: Preachers, Priests quitely embrace the Christ myth!!!

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Acharya S wrote:disabuse yourself of the Christian tradition of supernatural genesis
The idea that authentic religion is natural is a big part of the critique that DM Murdock (Acharya S) presents of traditional theology. The quoted comment here indicates how Christian tradition has dogmatised on supernatural genesis, and how we should disabuse ourselves of this error.

Scientific evidence provides no grounds for the religious dogma of a supernatural creator god, and proves it is false. In fact, science shows that reality is natural, and there is nothing that is supernatural. The idea of the supernatural is unscientific, corrupt and fraudulent, aimed to swindle people into believing priests and pastors. No one should believe in anything supernatural, because it is not true.

Rejection of the supernatural does not simply validate atheism, which itself is a religious movement, based in opposition to the ridiculous ideas of Christianity. Atheism ignores the sensible ideas hidden within Christianity, such as the basis of religion in precession of the equinox. Acharya opens a discussion about the sensible basis of religion, leading to a rational natural theology, understanding how humans relate to the stars and time. Acharya is on the path of salvation.
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Re: Preachers, Priests quitely embrace the Christ myth!!!

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Stahrwe
Your buddies; Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, et
That’s funny… my buddies?

I have never met these people and I certainly would not say I have any kind of relationship with them… especially not a personal relationship. I agree with most of what they have to say, but they do not speak for me, nor are they evil for what they promote. They are moral, honest people… more so than the vast majority of religious people I have encountered.

I do respect them and their expertise… and at least the people I admire aren’t imaginary... except for Captain Kirk.

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Re: Preachers, Priests quitely embrace the Christ myth!!!

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A further comment.

Acharya is on the side of the angels, the good ideas that make sense, and opposed to the side of the devils, the bad ideas that do not make sense. Her views on the big issues of religion are correct.

However, I do not completely agree with Acharya's view on Christianity, which seems to be that it is irredeemably corrupt.

I think it is possible to change Christianity so that it makes sense by recovering its hidden astral core.
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Re: Preachers, Priests quitely embrace the Christ myth!!!

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She's done plenty of Q&A radio sessions BTW guys. Let me look around and pull up some of the archives...
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Re: Preachers, Priests quitely embrace the Christ myth!!!

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Bishop Long "Sacred Division"


And here's a link to her media appearances.
http://stellarhousepublishing.com/radio.html
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